Any shot at 15:20??

72min for a half is plenty of strength. 8x1200 at 3:49 with under 2min rest is also pretty solid. wouldve been nice to average under 2:30 for those 800s

I think you'll run 15:35

easy weeks wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Yes.

How have you been?

Mostly awesome as always. Initially entertained by Trump and his bumbling staff, but I have decided it is really not funny to have a president who is delusional.

I'm going to assume that the 8 x 1200m were 3:49 and 6:50 is refering to the recovery pace, based on the other workout and your PB.

If so, yes 15:20 is absolutely plausible. If not, then you might as well stop reading the rest of the post.

While both the half and the 5k are mainly aerobic, the half marathon depends a lot more on elements you can't control. Cramps, losing contact, wind for a big portion of the race...

On a 5km the pain is more intense but the race is generally only 20% of a half marathon time, so you just suck it up over the last mile, be it on the road or the track.

If I were you I'd pile up those 75 second laps and hang on for your life for the last km. That would be 15:37 pace which is very respectable.

Last piece of advice if you're racing on the track: don't try to save energy on your penultimate lap. Go strong for another 200m and then pretend you're simply putting two 300m repeats in a row. It works or me in 3km at least because I can't close fast no matter what. I have 9:03 and will aim for a 15:15 in some months.

Probably an optimistic time, you look to have more short term potential over the half. But practice makes perfect, with time you certainly could give it a go, it takes time to get used to these things. Good luck. Keep us posted.

Thanks for all of the replies so far. 15:40ish is looking like the general consensus and Inwould be happy with that time.The response volume on the thread and this particular response prompted me to go back and look through my logs The 10x800m was done on January 9 which was quite a bit longer ago than I thought. It was 27 degrees.I have written down that I wore studded trainers so it must have been somewhat icy on the track. These aren't excuses, just notes from the log. I also written down that my heart rate avg was 172 (I am 29 years old so max is 190ish) and that I felt I had overdone it.The 1200m reps were last night. It was 48 degrees and sunny. 14 mpw wind.Avg heart rate was 149 and I felt like a million bucks. These are the only two things I have that resemble 5k workouts which is why they are the two I shared.I have been training for HM/Marathon so most of my hard efforts are much longer and much slower. Should I still chance going out at 5:00? I generally like to negative split, but haven't raced 5k in years. Would 5:05-5:10 be smarter?

Mo Rafah wrote:

I've done 10x800m @ 2:35 with 60s rest and could only run a 16:10. I could see myself doing @ 2:32 if my rest was 400m jog... so based on that workout only i would say more like 16:00 - 16:15

however, the 8 x 1200 seems much better than that. In fact you kept the same pace with the same rest and ran a lap more in each rep ... and more in total as well.

Out of that workout I'd say like 15:40. That also seems to be equivalent to your HM time.

Honestly i would be very surprised to hear you've run 15:20, but good luck!!

DayDreamBeliever wrote:

easy weeks wrote:

Not if this was a good result for you unless you just suck at longer distances, which I doubt at 75 miles/week.

That half should start with 1:10 - even a 1:10:59 - before you think about 15:20. I'd give you an outside chance with 1:11 low.

So more like 15:50? 16:00?

I ran 15:54 off 1:14:30

Depends on your speed but you should be at least looking for 15:30.

What's your mile /1500m time?

Either way going out in 5 is not too much for you. No harm in testing yourself.

I would go out at 5:00. It might be a little aggressive, but what do you have to lose? It is not an absurd pace based on workouts (although it would be nice to know what your workouts looked like before your current PR).

And while I don't train by heart rate, it seems like your better workout was actually fairly easy for you based on your heart rate and the perceived effort.

If you were seriously wondering about 15:20, I am not sure why you would move that goal all the way up to close to 16:00.

Mo Rafah wrote:

DayDreamBeliever wrote:

75 mpw

1:12:27 HM last month

8 x 1200m @ 4:49 avg with 400m jog recovery (~6:50 pace)

10 x 800m @ 2:32 avg with 400m jog recovery

5k next weekend

Is 15:20s realistic?

I am thinking of going out in 5:00.

Only been back to training for 13 months.

No 5ks since then

Old PR is 16:07 from 2012

I've done 10x800m @ 2:35 with 60s rest and could only run a 16:10. I could see myself doing @ 2:32 if my rest was 400m jog... so based on that workout only i would say more like 16:00 - 16:15

however, the 8 x 1200 seems much better than that. In fact you kept the same pace with the same rest and ran a lap more in each rep ... and more in total as well.

Out of that workout I'd say like 15:40. That also seems to be equivalent to your HM time.

Honestly i would be very surprised to hear you've run 15:20, but good luck!!

I just don't understand why? Your going for a 15:20. You mention going out at 5:00 flat. Please explain to me why you would do 10x800 with 60 sec rest?At that pace? Why not No rest? The 8x1200 is a ton of running with a what jog rest? I did watch Cheserek do 9 x 1000 recently, about a 3:30 rests, but he was flying of course.

Where is your 4 or so mile Tempo at? What if you went to say 6x1200, with good stationary recovery rests between, and worked on getting those 1200's slowly down, bettering the times slowly but surely. Your talking about a 15:20, on the track, that 5k is faster than 5 flats per mile. You are not training for that speed, I just never got this 60 sec rest crap at this level. What is your progression run like? What is your easy and hard long run pace at. You got to adapt your body, for sub 5 flats, for three miles. Oh forget it, just at least focus on a 4 mile Tempo, where are you at right now, on an even 4 mile Tempo...hopefully at altitude?

P.S. I'm not being negative here. IMHO you got a serious work ethic. You got huge guts and are NOT afraid of work. IMO you are ready for the correct type training and I think it would be easier than what you are doing now. I have no doubt, with the correct training, you would start feeling so strong and your times would start to surprise even you.

For reference, I ran 4x1200 w/ 2 min jog rest (400m around the track) in 3:50, :57, ;54, :54, followed by 4x200 @ 35. I remember this workout being tough but not balls to the walls. Two and a half weeks later I ran a 16:15 5k on a predominantly grass XC course with slight undulations.

I think 15:35, give or take a few seconds, sounds reasonable. Go out in 5 flat and see where it brings ya.

Flagpole wrote:

easy weeks wrote:

How have you been?

Mostly awesome as always. Initially entertained by Trump and his bumbling staff, but I have decided it is really not funny to have a president who is delusional.

Agreed on both counts.

As an aside, I find it odd (and amusing) that I am chatting with you and it seems no one has noticed in close to 24 hours.

How are you going to average under 5:00 minutes per mile without running faster than 5:00 minutes per mile in training? Those 1200s need to be under 3:45 with more rest. Or do 10-16 400s at race pace with 60 second recovery.

easy weeks wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Mostly awesome as always. Initially entertained by Trump and his bumbling staff, but I have decided it is really not funny to have a president who is delusional.

Agreed on both counts.

As an aside, I find it odd (and amusing) that I am chatting with you and it seems no one has noticed in close to 24 hours.

... unless this is an imposter who simply registered "Flagpole" with a capital I as the lowercase L. That would be disappointing.

Yeah man! You definitely have a shot!

One suggestion I would have is shorten that 8x1200 workout to 4-5x1200 but run it at 3:39 instead of 3:49. Gotta get used to that 15:20 pace. Don't be afraid to lengthen the rests to 2:30 jog rest if need be.

To clarify on a few questions:

I know that 15:20 is 4:57 pace. In the past, I have always run negative splits for 5k. This is where the 5:00 came from.

So, in my mind, going out in 5:05 would not be "aiming for close to 16:00", but I admittedly don't know squat about 5k racing.

Also - I know the workouts are not ideal for 5k training. I am not training for a 5k. My goal race is a marathon in May.

I have been doing lots of marathon specific work. Occasionally, I mix it up with something a little shorter/faster, but I never do "speed sessions".

I do not like training for speed. I do not like track work. That is why I have chosen to focus on longer stuff. The training is easier (in my opinion).

I am probably more of a "speed type". In HS, my PRs were 2:00.97/4:39/10:17 so I definitely got worse as I went up.

This 5k is just a one-off that I am doing because the team that my buddy coaches is using it as a team fundraiser. Otherwise, I would not be racing the distance at all. I have no plans to race 5k in the future.

Just want to see what I can do for this one. The race is not until 3/18, so I could squeeze in a more traditional 5k workout next week. Any suggestions??

The current plan is to go out in 5:00 and see what happens. Seems like I should be able to hold close to even off of that. Maybe a positive split wouldn't kill me anyways...

easy weeks wrote:

easy weeks wrote:

Agreed on both counts.

As an aside, I find it odd (and amusing) that I am chatting with you and it seems no one has noticed in close to 24 hours.

... unless this is an imposter who simply registered "Flagpole" with a capital I as the lowercase L. That would be disappointing.

This is an imposter. All variations of FLAGPOLE with interchanged I's are registered. Also he said "Mostly awesome as always" which is a dead giveaway.

DayDreamBeliever wrote:

1:12:27 HM last month

easy weeks wrote:

Not if this was a good result for you unless you just suck at longer distances, which I doubt at 75 miles/week.

That half should start with 1:10 - even a 1:10:59 - before you think about 15:20. I'd give you an outside chance with 1:11 low.

DayDreamBeliever wrote:

So more like 15:50? 16:00?

I ran a 15:20 and 1:11 low at 75 mpw. I'd think OP is probably around 15:30, but we don't know enough about him. Certainly not impossible.

OP, what are you training for? You're doing an awful lot of long intervals for this to be 5k training. 8x1200m & 10x800m @ just over 5k pace have got to be brutal workouts.

Here's a better question: What can you run for a mile right now? If you say 4:25 you have a shot at 15:20. I'm guessing you're more like 4:30-4:35, which would point the needle towards 15:40 like others are saying.