Richmond Marathon or NYC Marathon?

Voice of reason wrote:

Smoove- just FYI... Based on the last thread, outsiderunner is almost definitely trolling

I went back and forth on that as the other string evolved. Ultimately, we figured out he's a real person and who he is, and I pretty much only use that email address for this forum, so I'm fine even if he's trolling. Thanks for looking out though.

Smoove wrote:

Voice of reason wrote:

Smoove- just FYI... Based on the last thread, outsiderunner is almost definitely trolling

I went back and forth on that as the other string evolved. Ultimately, we figured out he's a real person and who he is, and I pretty much only use that email address for this forum, so I'm fine even if he's trolling. Thanks for looking out though.

Yep, real person, really ran the races he states, unclear if what he says actually matches the thoughts of a logical person, or he makes up intricate troll stories based on real race times.

Oh snap! Guys! outsiderunner is back! And he was right again…injured by the cold. Or - I’m guessing you’re still running the majority of your miles near race pace, right?

One question: All those travel and NYC specific reasons why you hated your race last year, and you’re considering doing it twice this year?

One comment: I don’t think your 1:26 is soft. May not be all that recent, but most race calculators put the corresponding marathon time at or under 3:00 for a 1:26 half. Since you’re not 3:00 marathoner yet I doubt your half speed has really gotten all that much faster in the last couple years.

David S. Pumpkins wrote:

Oh snap! Guys! outsiderunner is back! And he was right again…injured by the cold. Or - I’m guessing you’re still running the majority of your miles near race pace, right?

One question: All those travel and NYC specific reasons why you hated your race last year, and you’re considering doing it twice this year?

One comment: I don’t think your 1:26 is soft. May not be all that recent, but most race calculators put the corresponding marathon time at or under 3:00 for a 1:26 half. Since you’re not 3:00 marathoner yet I doubt your half speed has really gotten all that much faster in the last couple years.

Good to see you back David S. Pumpkins.

outsiderunner - sorry to hear about your injuries. What's your training plan for NYC half? If I were you I'd run Richmond and tackle NYC again next year. I look forward to hearing about your progress over the coming months.

FWIW Richmond is a much faster course than NYC

not to mention much easier start and finish logistics

if i were going for a PR, i would choose Richmond every time

your chances of sub-3 are much higher in Richmond

You gotta do NYC and get your revenge on that course. If you don't, it will haunt you and you will always regret it. Trust me. I've been there.

been there, done it wrote:

You gotta do NYC and get your revenge on that course. If you don't, it will haunt you and you will always regret it. Trust me. I've been there.

I'm all for retribution (and after 3 years look forward to finally getting mine 10 weeks from today), but I think our friend needs to focus on getting his sub-3:00 first.

NeverBetter wrote:

Ok great info. I have a qual time in a non NYRR race. So basically I don't do anything with that until Jan 2018, correct?

Yes...you need to put up a qualifying time sometime this year--from 1/1/17-12/31/17, and then wait on the window opening in January, 2018.

Angryjohnny wrote:

been there, done it wrote:

You gotta do NYC and get your revenge on that course. If you don't, it will haunt you and you will always regret it. Trust me. I've been there.

I'm all for retribution (and after 3 years look forward to finally getting mine 10 weeks from today), but I think our friend needs to focus on getting his sub-3:00 first.

Yes, Angryjohnny, the sub-3:00 has priority here. I would like "revenge" on the NYC course (or perhaps redemption is a better term), but I could always try it again in 2018. The 1:28 or better at the NYC Half would lock that in place for 2018.

David: I see your point about my half time, but I had better fitness (perhaps much better) this fall than when I ran the 1:26:10 half in 2014.

In regard to my travel to NYC, I have altered my plan quite a bit: no bus ride (ferry instead...with restrooms), no staying in the hotel two night prior (cut it to one), etc. What can I say...you live and learn.

Also, the NYC Half is nowhere near the logistics beast that is the NYC Marathon--not even close. Check out the details on-line and you will see what I mean.

With regard to training, I had a nice training plan in place for the NYC Half (based mostly on the Brad Hudson philosophy), but the problematic IT band has messed it up.

Was able to run a steady 6.5 today...but I still had some string.

I meant to say: "I still had some sting."

They don't have to be mutually exclusive. Why not go for sub 3 at NYC. That way you get your sub 3 AND sweet revenge on the course that broke you.

Indeed, that NYC couse did break me. I felt much better at Richmond, and Richmond is not flat, either.

Reflecting upon what happened, I think I also need to be a little more conservtaive in the first 13.1 next time. I think my 1:28:37 was a little too aggressive for the first half of NYC.

Most of all, I need to be blessed with good training and good fitness.

Who dat: thank you for your regards. I look forward to a fruitful 2017.

outsiderunner wrote:

In regard to my travel to NYC, I have altered my plan quite a bit: no bus ride (ferry instead...with restrooms), no staying in the hotel two night prior (cut it to one), etc. What can I say...you live and learn.

Might I suggest getting a Staten Island AirBnB? I did that and I woke up at like 7:30am, got an Uber to the security checkpoint and had plenty of time to pee, get a coffee, and get into the corrals.

SI is a shithole though...

Also if you do the revenge route: hills. Do lots and lots of hill reps.

outsiderunner wrote:

David: I see your point about my half time, but I had better fitness (perhaps much better) this fall than when I ran the 1:26:10 half in 2014.

Yes, we spent many pages discussing how great your fitness was last fall, but I still maintain that you haven't demonstrated better fitness till you prove it. I haven't seen any proof that 1:26 is as soft as you think it is.

Do you know what caused the IT problems, or was it just bad luck again and you were doing nothing wrong? For me it was weak hips whilst overtraining for my current fitness. Bridges, clams, lunges, etc got me right as rain.

You already proved you were a sub 3 guy with that gutsy, yet unfortunate, race in the fall. Concentrate on the bigger things. How about Boston. Not sure what time you would need, but I bet you could get top 10-15 in your age group.

David S. Pumpkins wrote:

outsiderunner wrote:

David: I see your point about my half time, but I had better fitness (perhaps much better) this fall than when I ran the 1:26:10 half in 2014.

Yes, we spent many pages discussing how great your fitness was last fall, but I still maintain that you haven't demonstrated better fitness till you prove it. I haven't seen any proof that 1:26 is as soft as you think it is.

Do you know what caused the IT problems, or was it just bad luck again and you were doing nothing wrong? For me it was weak hips whilst overtraining for my current fitness. Bridges, clams, lunges, etc got me right as rain.

I just saw in the old thread that you ran a 19:14 5k end of the year. A 19:00 5k translates on calculators to a 1:27 half. (19:14 = 1:28 half) Like I said, might want to rethink "soft".

Also, running a race with an injured IT band when you can only run a couple days a week? Classic outsiderunner...

You throwing shade at outsiderunner already? NYC Half is 6 weeks away.

I understand your desire to get some revenge on the NYCM but I agree with Angryjohnny that Fall '17 isn't the right time. Remember that revenge is a dish best served cold. Don't set yourself up for another frustrating experience. Since NYC and then the trail marathon problem you haven't run one recently that you've been really happy with. So run the Half (hope the injury resolves!) and focus on Richmond for the fall. Then give yourself some more time to think about maybe NYCM in 2018. It doesn't owe you anything--if you want some fast times and experiences you enjoy there are many more preferable fall marathons to run and if you do run it and PR, you'll only drive yourself crazy trying to determine by how much more you could have PRd on a faster course.As so the clock ticking, given your background I'd say you've got another 3-4 years of improvement readily within your reach before you might start to stabilize, the aging starting to really push back against the training and improvements you're making.Glad you're still enthusiastic. Keep it up!

Angryjohnny wrote:

Sorry to hear about the IT band. I've never had that problem and would not even begin to offer advice about whether you should race on it.

I would forget about NYC 2017 and find something fast. As I recall somebody on the other thread had a well thought-out plan for getting in a fast fall marathon with backups depending on weather. It's been a while since I considered running Richmond but I seem to recall that it's reasonably flat so that could be a good option.

The 5k time killed me not to comment on. It was right in line with all of his other times. But I pledged to not comment further on that string. I honestly thought he was trolling us with that 5k time.