List some professions where people make a good living by lying all the time.

That's right, Immanual Kant was a liar too.

Trophy Wives

Fundraising.

I've made a living doing this for 10 years. Before that, I was a lobbyist for 15 years. I tell myself that I'm "working for good causes," but there are days when I think that is the biggest lie of them all. Every day, I run. Also, I have some stories to tell at cocktail parties.

Law school was a long time ago wrote:

IndyJ wrote:

I know someone is going to say law, and I pre-emptively disput that. I have literally never lied when it comes to my legal work. No one does. Hell, we turn over incriminating emails under what is basically an honor system.

Concur. Despite people's impressions to the contrary, lawyers don't lie. You're never trusted within the profession if you do.

Funnily, I think lawyers' propensity to be relentlessly logical is what makes people think that attorneys are liars. The average guy inserts a ton of his own assumptions into whatever he's reading or hearing. Then when an attorney is like "that isn't what the document/law says," people think they've been tricked.

When I hear someone claim that a lawyer is a liar, the argument is rarely "the contract says X, but the lawyer is trying to say that it says Y." The argument is almost always, "Sure, the document says Z, but anyone would assume that it meant Q."

A spy working in non-official cover. An undercover law enforcement officer living and working in alias.

Doctors

Car Salesman

A.M. Radio Host

Fox News Personality

Scientology Recruiter

Priest/Evangelist

Magician

Palm Reader/Seer

Chiropractor

Acupuncturist

Homeopathic Health Professional

Television preachers.

Car mechanics.

Ex wives in divorce settlements (ask Brad Pitt).

I had to interview some lawyers for a civil case last year. They all lied about how things work , what was needed, what I could or couldn't do without them. Very basic up-selling lies. I found one who did what I wanted for a fraction of the money time and trouble they wanted. For instance they kept saying I needed to do a quiet title action to get access to my rights, I didn't, I am using my rights every day now for 6 months and they are irrevocable unless I sell them. Total cost $600 and some "self help" . Estimated costs $35k by various firms.

There are certain positions in the government that are designed and organized with the idea that lies and misinformation are a feature, not a bug. James Clapper and John Brennan are not only liars, but bad liars and unapologetic liars. I am comfortable with the idea that secrecy is a component of a country's interaction with other countries, and perhaps even its own citizenry, but I think it is also incumbent on media and citizens to assume every utterance from the leaders of these organizations may well be untrue.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Director of National Intelligence

High School Social Studies Teachers.

The World and US narrative that is currently being perpetrated on our youth in the US High School system has nothing at all to do with what actually happened or the reason why it happened...75% of it is a fabrication and therefore a lie.

bigtool05 wrote:

President of the United States

President elect Donald Trump

Police

Any criminal defense attorney who defended a guilty person and claimed they 'didn't do it' lied. Almost every court case one side or both is probably lying on some things.

The most obvious and truest answer - Climate "scientists" and Global Warming.

Nutritionsts. They have only killed a few tens of millions in the last 50 years though.

The most obvious answer. Priest and ministers who peddle the bible. 98% of what they say is a lie.

as another lawyer, i like at least some of the discussion here. i think it's true, for example, that many times the outsider just isn't a careful listener or reader. that's true of pretty much everyone on the planet, lawyers included. but i also think the lawyers--if they're lawyers--are being pretty silly on some level. most lawyers lie, and most lawyers recognize most lawyers lie.

i dont know if we have an illustration here of the more generalized letsrun case--everybody runs a 14 min 5k, regularly bangs a 9, makes at least 250k/yr, and oh by the way, everyone is incredibly righteous. or maybe, charitably, we've got some folks here who've really drunk the kool-aid of their sub-field--civil defense lawyers believing corps/individuals have equal bargaining power and corps generally act above-board, prosecutors believing what they do is consistent with some concept of justice, etc (and vice versa).

as a lawyer who's worked plaintiff side and defense side, both civil and criminal, and has now worked for the courts for an awful long time, i've observed various empirically demonstrable truths. one empirically demonstrable fact is probably this: the best lawyers often lie and recognize they're lying, but also do a good job of ensuring the court has an opportunity to reach the right result without relying (hehe) on the lie. the weaker lawyers, a group which includes almost every lawyer who practices and potentially every lawyer who has posted here, often cannot do that, for one reason or another (not a sophisticated enough understanding of the law, or language, for example, or perhaps not a sophisticated enough toolkit in general). they're often the folks who then resort to the retrospective kind of claim: well, i was better, but the other guy lied.

as an aside, i cannot imagine what kind of lawyer would argue that lies don't happen in criminal cases. both sides lie about things big and little almost every day, and yes, of course those lies affect the lives of the defendant, any potential victims, and the public at large. maybe this discussion suggests a useful question for an outsider seeking counsel is: how often does an attorney lie? and if the attorney, after giving some short remark about ethical obligations, doesn't then say something to the effect of, but it happens all the time, the client should run in the other direction.

DOJ wrote:

bigtool05 wrote:

President of the United States

President elect Donald Trump

Hey, have some respect. Trump only lies 70% of the time, which is only slightly more than double the rate of most politicians like HRC and Obama.