How about Eric Jenkins? Beat the Olympic gold medallist just a couple weeks later in a mile race. #Bringbackthemile
How about Eric Jenkins? Beat the Olympic gold medallist just a couple weeks later in a mile race. #Bringbackthemile
rojo wrote:
I don't think it's even close between Centro and Kiprop when you factor in World Indoors. You can tell me it's not important but it is if you show up. He won that, had the world leading mile.
Personally, I had more trouble on the women's side. I wanted to put Genzebe Dibaba at #2. I know she didn't race on the DL circuit but her indoor and outdoor mile times are way faster than any 1500 that anyone ran and she was undefeated except for the Olympics.
I would have put Muir #3 and G Dibaba #2. but got overruled by the rest of the staff.
In case you haven't read the rankings. The men are here:
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/12/2016-lrc-year-end-rankings-mens-1500mile-olympic-champion-matthew-centrowitz-world-1/Women are here:
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/12/2016-lrc-year-end-rankings-womens-1500-faith-kipyegon-unseats-genzebe-dibaba-world-1-jenny-simpson-back-top-u-s-rankings/
If Kiprop is number 2 then so is Muir.
ThatAverageRunner wrote:
Loving the fact that people are discrediting the OLYMPIC FINAL for one reason or another.
The race was a huge letdown. You have a dozen guys in peak shape, including a 3:26 guy and another guy who begins his workouts with a solo 1:44, on an extremely fast track (400m and 10,000m WRs set on it), and they run 24 seconds slower than the WR. On top of the bizarre slowness, there was no jostling, no big sprint finish, and no fans in the stadium watching and cheering. It was beyond pathetic.
Les wrote:
For me, the big hole in the Letsrun ranking criteria is it is not based on the entire SEASON's results as it is with T&FN rankings. With T&FN the criteria and weights are 1) honors won; 2) head to head results; 3) marks. With Letsrun's criteria with, it appears with no weighting are 1) big race performance; 2) times -- but very strange how times run with better competition count more than with lesser competition. So 3:26 against a good field is "better" than 3:26 run solo? It's actually easier to run that time with a group rather than solo; 3) unnecessary/unclear third criteria -- seems to imply a certain number of races is necessary for ranking in second event but not first, in any case Letsrun breaks their own rules; 4) including indoor performances which are by nature (including world indoor) against inferior competition. World/Olympic semifinals have better fields than World indoors. If you're going to include World Indoors results, shouldn't World/Olympic prelims against better fields also count? The Letsrun criteria haven't been thought out and there is an inconsistency and lack of transparency in the ranking process. How is it that Dibaba "loses major points for not running a single Diamond League 1500" yet Centrowitz who ALSO didn't run a single Diamond League races doesn't? In any case, no point totals were given by Letsrun so we have no way of knowing if the referred-to "points" were just mental or a real objective number. My major beef is it's pretty clear the criteria were set up to favor American/European athletes like Centrowitz/Muir. Centro won the biggest race of the year, but that was his sole achievement. Letsrun included indoor results basically to pad his resume,yet ignored the fact that he didn't race a single Diamond League race against much superior competition. Basically highlighting his season strengths while ignoring the glaring holes. In the case of Muir, Letsrun completely goes the opposite way, ignoring her blowing up in the biggest race of the year while focusing on her late season Diamond League successes. There might not be "shame" (strange choice of word) in trying to match Dibaba's surge, but there shouldn't be CREDIT GIVEN for poor pace judgment, which is what Letsrun is doing. She finished seventh. Medals (and credit) shouldn't be given for seventh place. Tangible results, please, not intangible ones. If Muir had gone out at world record place and faded to seventh would you still be crediting her or calling her stupid?
I personally believe that SEASON RANKINGS should reflect an entire season's results. If a runner chose not to compete except for a minimum number of competitions, they shouldn't be credited for it. If the New England Patriots were allowed to only play the Super Bowl and no regular season games and won it, would you feel comfortable saying they were the NFL champion over a team that played a complete season? They may have won the Super Bowl but it would be hard for me to say were the champion. My personal number #1's for the season for that reason are Makhloufi and Kipyegon. That did well in both the big meets and the Diamond League. Not saying that Centro is doping, but running only the big meets and doing well while not running the season is the same competition pattern as people like Dibaba and Russian/Chinese dopers. It looks suspicious.
Hopefully, next season Letsrun will have an objective, fair, transparent ranking system.
This x 1000000.
The indoor season isnt considered in these rankings, especially since many top athletes don't compete indoors.
Centro won exactly one race against international competition.
His reward is an Olympic Gold medal.
If you are going to rank by Olympic finish only, then there is no need to create rankings.
So, you consider the entire season.
A season where Centro had no other international victories and didn't run a top ten time. That kind of year will not get you a number one ranking.
But he's set for life as an Olympic champion, so no big loss.
jamin wrote:
ThatAverageRunner wrote:Loving the fact that people are discrediting the OLYMPIC FINAL for one reason or another.
The race was a huge letdown. You have a dozen guys in peak shape, including a 3:26 guy and another guy who begins his workouts with a solo 1:44, on an extremely fast track (400m and 10,000m WRs set on it), and they run 24 seconds slower than the WR. On top of the bizarre slowness, there was no jostling, no big sprint finish, and no fans in the stadium watching and cheering. It was beyond pathetic.
Yeah it was slow and Kiprop ran like a moron, but none of this is centro's fault. I'm sure he was ready for a lot of different scenarios, and regardless, he won. Whether is was fast or slow, he won the race and that's all that honestly matters in the end.
This one you got right. The man who is in the arena is the one who counts and certainly will when we look back in a few years. Does anyone remember Ron Clarke?
jamin wrote:
ThatAverageRunner wrote:Loving the fact that people are discrediting the OLYMPIC FINAL for one reason or another.
The race was a huge letdown. You have a dozen guys in peak shape, including a 3:26 guy and another guy who begins his workouts with a solo 1:44, on an extremely fast track (400m and 10,000m WRs set on it), and they run 24 seconds slower than the WR. On top of the bizarre slowness, there was no jostling, no big sprint finish, and no fans in the stadium watching and cheering. It was beyond pathetic.
You expect a Monaco-type of race in an Olympic final? You do understand those are apples and oranges? Monaco is a time trial -- it's just guys running as hard as they can, no strategy, no pressure, just a time. The Olympic final is the complete opposite -- all strategy, huge pressure, racing not a time trial. You must not have seen the race. Kwemoi went sprawling on the second lap. Willis was pushed off the track on the curve. There was lots of pushing and shoving and as for lack of sprint -- probably 8 guys ran 51 or faster for the last lap -- what do you want?
Centrowitz it is...Yes! wrote:
This one you got right. The man who is in the arena is the one who counts and certainly will when we look back in a few years. Does anyone remember Ron Clarke?
Agreed. This is a ranking of the best 1500 runners, not the fastest or most consistent. Everyone was focused on the Olympics as the single most important race of the year and Centro beat them all. Ask Kiprop if he'd rather have his times and wins from 2016 or the Olympic gold. The answer is obvious.
I must say I didn't appreciate the brilliance of centro's Olympic race until watching it a few times over. Tactically, it was a masterpiece. Nobody can rightfully argue that Centro is the fastest at 1500, but he sure has been the best at racing this past year where it counts.
Screw the time. Not only did Centro win Olympic Gold he beat arguably the greatest field ever in an Olympic Final:
4 of the 10 fastest of all time
2 Olympic Gold Medalist
Gold Silver and Bronze from previous Olympics
Gold and Bronze from previous World Championships
This is a totally U.S. biased ranking. Not a surprise for LRC.
If things were reversed and Kiprop had run a bunch of slow times, had no Diamond League races, and scraped out a win in a slow 1500m in Rio there's no chance he would get #1 against a Centrowitz who had run the fastest time in the world (only one under 3:30), dominated the Diamond League, and whose only hiccup was a weird Olympic final.
Totally biased.
During an Olympic year the Olympic champion should be ranked number 1 no matter what. Doesn't matter if someone else set a world record at a different meet in the same event. Whoever won the Olympics is the best in that respective event.
AxC wrote:
Screw the time. Not only did Centro win Olympic Gold he beat arguably the greatest field ever in an Olympic Final:
4 of the 10 fastest of all time
2 Olympic Gold Medalist
Gold Silver and Bronze from previous Olympics
Gold and Bronze from previous World Championships
This is the post that really gets it. Whine about the winning time all you want, centro defeated an absolutely loaded field. If the other runners are so much better, maybe they should have tried running faster
Gold. wrote:
During an Olympic year the Olympic champion should be ranked number 1 no matter what. Doesn't matter if someone else set a world record at a different meet in the same event. Whoever won the Olympics is the best in that respective event.
Women's 100m hurdles 2016.
Centrowitz it is...Yes! wrote:
This one you got right. The man who is in the arena is the one who counts and certainly will when we look back in a few years. Does anyone remember Ron Clarke?
Poor example. I can think of Olympic 1500m champs forgotten more quickly (Peter Rono anyone?). Or in Ron's event, Brahim Boutayeb.
dontbelieveit wrote:
Screw the time. Not only did Centro win Olympic Gold he beat arguably the greatest field ever in an Olympic Final:
4 of the 10 fastest of all time
2 Olympic Gold Medalist
Gold Silver and Bronze from previous Olympics
Gold and Bronze from previous World Championships
Centro beat a field like this ONCE. Granted, it was the Olympics... That's why he is #2, instead of #3. Outside of that, his season was very unimpressive. He ran the 21st fastest time. He dogged competition the entire outdoor season.
From Letsrun Olympic 1500 Preview: "We haven’t forgotten about World Indoor champion Matthew Centrowitz. It’s just harder to compare him against the Africans because he has run every single one of his races in the United States this year. "
Talk about a tough season!!!
From the Letsrun Olympic 1500 Preview: "On paper, his post-Trials results (2:20 for 2nd in the 1k at the American Track League in Houston, 1:47 for 4th in the TrackTown Summer Series in Eugene) aren’t particularly impressive..."
Hence, he doesn't deserve to be the #1 1500m runner OF THE SEASON.
You know who does deserve #1?
Letsrun.com gives you a hint: "[Kiprop], if anything, looked even more untouchable, winning his first five 1500/miles. In many cases, he displayed an almost comical level of dominance with the rest of the field essentially giving up once Kiprop got out to early leads in Doha, Birmingham and Oslo. His only blemish came in Monaco on July 15, where he faded to sixth after leading early
KIPROP!!!!! Comical level of dominance.
But, I guess, one race defines who the best YEAR LONG runner was.
abraham chebii wrote:
Gold. wrote:During an Olympic year the Olympic champion should be ranked number 1 no matter what. Doesn't matter if someone else set a world record at a different meet in the same event. Whoever won the Olympics is the best in that respective event.
Women's 100m hurdles 2016.
Exactly why I mentioned a WR. Congrats on the WR..... Didn't even make the team. Gold is more important.
Les wrote:
For me, the big hole in the Letsrun ranking criteria is it is not based on the entire SEASON's results as it is with T&FN rankings.
Our rankings are based on the entire season. Centro would not have been ranked #1 if he didn't win World Indoors.
The Letsrun criteria haven't been thought out and there is an inconsistency and lack of transparency in the ranking process. How is it that Dibaba "loses major points for not running a single Diamond League 1500" yet Centrowitz who ALSO didn't run a single Diamond League races doesn't? In any case, no point totals were given by Letsrun so we have no way of knowing if the referred-to "points" were just mental or a real objective number. My major beef is it's pretty clear the criteria were set up to favor American/European athletes like Centrowitz/Muir. Centro won the biggest race of the year, but that was his sole achievement. Letsrun included indoor results basically to pad his resume,yet ignored the fact that he didn't race a single Diamond League race against much superior competition. Basically highlighting his season strengths while ignoring the glaring holes. In the case of Muir, Letsrun completely goes the opposite way, ignoring her blowing up in the biggest race of the year while focusing on her late season Diamond League successes.
Totally valid criticism. Without the World Indoors Centro isn't #1. The sport needs people running major races (which we classify as Diamond League and Worlds) to succeed. The difference between Centro and Dibaba is a) World Indoors and B) Centro got gold while Dibaba didn't.
Maybe in the future we should have minimum criteria (ie if you don't run any DL meets you can't be ranked) but we don't have that.
I personally believe that SEASON RANKINGS should reflect an entire season's results. If a runner chose not to compete except for a minimum number of competitions, they shouldn't be credited for it. If the New England Patriots were allowed to only play the Super Bowl and no regular season games and won it, would you feel comfortable saying they were the NFL champion over a team that played a complete season?
Hopefully, next season Letsrun will have an objective, fair, transparent ranking system.
Track and Field news rankings aren't objective like ATP tennis rankings where there are points that are just calculated. The rankings have objective criteria but a subjective vote.
Centro without World Indoors doesn't get ranked that high. We consider World Indoors to be a major event. (Maybe we're a bit biased this year even more so because it was in the US).
macdaddy wrote:
KIPROP!!!!! Comical level of dominance.
But, I guess, one race defines who the best YEAR LONG runner was.
You've got to factor in Kiprop bombed at the biggest race of the year. Kiprop gets a silver, he's getting a World #1.