Clubrunning wrote:
57 in practice, never raced the 400
4:38 1600
16:30 5k
Based on my high school times, this is almost exactly my response. I got better at the 5K and never ran the other two after high school. I have to admit that I backed off the 400 by about one second because it was a time trial to make the 4X400, which I wanted no part of.
Smoove wrote:
I think you are misreading the tone of the other thread. People were estimating what guys who are capable of running in the 13:40 5000m range (translating down to the 5000m from a 2:12 marathon via VDOT tables) were capable of running the 400m in. Given that this is the rough equivalent of a 4 flat mile, most people believe that 50-52 would be a reasonable expectation of such an athlete for an all out 400m.
Such people, are wrong.
There is a VAST difference between 50 and 52 seconds. It is like saying 'oh he can run somewhere between 3:30 and 3:38 for the 1500'.
13:40 takes endurance. If the 5k is your primary event then a 13:40 runner might only run a 53/54.
They are slow.
I think I'm a strange one in this respect
400m 51.5
800m 1:51.2
1500m 3:57.5
I don't know what happened
Courtesy Statman Crothers list:
400
46.15 Sica
47.22 TB
47.8 runrinaldirun
48.42 LouieQ
48.4 Kaitainen
48.4 DJ
48.4 Disregard the obvious
48.4 Beaver Track
48.79 hahaha
48.9 Hilly
-10-
49.02 NightTrainX
49.2 Northwest Master
49.50 toro
49.5 ausrunner26
49.6 aerobic what?
49.7 Moz
49.87 kannapolis
49 Bernie the Wood
-18-
50.02 Chugger
50.12 gentlemansavage
50.1 skizzim
50.3 patriotleaguer
50.4 in flagstaff
50.5 E_Smith
50.5r Sully
50.6 songdog
50.6 monkiefs
50.77 BillCarr
50.7 dsk
50.9r ET
-30-
50.9 conto
50.9 eby
51.0 Miles and Miles
51.3 BenjaminSavage
51.6r dick
51.8r CT_Runna
51.9 eddy
51 sjm1368
51 Matty P
51 Gaylord Focker
-40-
52.3 lester hayes
52.6 jeffc
52.8 fatnslow
52.8 NT
52.8 Runin
52.8 Albany_Runner
52.8 MSUrunner
52 Kid Rock
53.5 BB
53.7 old guy2
53.7r Benedict
53.8 IC Bomber
53.93 asicsman
53 CaptainHaddock
53 JEH
53 fullem
53 RUNINTHESUN
53 S_Davis
53 scxc
54.0r Grote
54.02 GaryB
54.2 10krunner
54.5 chgray
55.4 AM Runner
55 Snail
55.9 steveu
56.0 PortlandRunner
56.0 Fry
56.4 Joe Rubio
56.4 vicarious
56.5 runna
57.5 JK
56.7 nikeman
56.9 Dale
56.9 runbaby
56 Runhard5000
56 runningart
56 Jimmy
56 Hodgie-san
56r BryanB2
57.1 Streakmarine
57.3 Mr. Potato Head
57.5 ATL's finest
57.5 Becky (chick)
57.5 runna
57.6 Joseph Aloysius McV.
57.8 HRE
58.3 sub 206
58 JDOGXC
58 Wags in Illinois
59.5 Larunner
64.0 z100nyc
67 8 runner
72 Pretzel Lover
Read more:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=212501#ixzz4TOtZShqE
400m 50.9
800m 1:52
xc 8k 25:15
58ish lifetime best. I only ran relays. Mile time was 4:58
40 years and 50 lbs later, I can do only a 98. Mile time is 7:00
53 400
1:55 800
4:30 1600
53.5
1:57
4:33
Sure there is a difference between 50 and 52; that is intended to account for the fact that there is probably a fair difference between what different athletes in that 13:30 range might be able to run.
I am not saying every 2:12 marathoner can run 52 seconds for the 400. I am just emphasizing that those folks who were suggesting 57s for guys who have run 13:30s are being a bit silly. You may have a one off guy here or there that might be in the 53 or 54 range, but I would think that those guys would be the rare exception.
That is borne out by common sense, that is borne out by picking any number of elite marathoners and looking back at their other race times, and that is borne out from my personal observation (both of myself as a 14:19 5000m/55 high 400m at the end of a workout, and by other athletes that I have coached and trained with).
Standing start or blocks?
Smoove wrote:
Sure there is a difference between 50 and 52; that is intended to account for the fact that there is probably a fair difference between what different athletes in that 13:30 range might be able to run.
I am not saying every 2:12 marathoner can run 52 seconds for the 400. I am just emphasizing that those folks who were suggesting 57s for guys who have run 13:30s are being a bit silly. You may have a one off guy here or there that might be in the 53 or 54 range, but I would think that those guys would be the rare exception.
That is borne out by common sense, that is borne out by picking any number of elite marathoners and looking back at their other race times, and that is borne out from my personal observation (both of myself as a 14:19 5000m/55 high 400m at the end of a workout, and by other athletes that I have coached and trained with).
These guys that train for endurance don't get any quicker than times they ran as teenagers. Their 400 stays roughly the same but their endurance gets much better. They are slow. 57 is silly but 52 is absolutely the top end for these slowpokes.
Talk of 50 is outrageous. Total disrespect for the event. Some of these 2:12 marathon guys probably struggle to break 25s for 200m.
Reasonable people can reach different conclusions, but at least we have narrowed the gap here some.
400m-50.3
800m-1:53
1500m-3:56
Wish I had better speed so I could have ran a faster 800m
Callum Hawkins. 60 HM 2:10 Mary
Best 800m: 1:55
Best 1500m: 3:54
Yeah, sure he can run 52........
Chris Thompson 61 HM 2:11Mary
Best 800m: 1:53
Best 1500m: 3:41 (3:43 year he ran 61)
Dewi Griffiths 63 HM 28:28 10k
Best 1500m: 3:52
Jonathan Davies 13:23 5k
Best 800m: 1:54.9
Best 1500m: 3:43
Andy Vernon 27:42 10k
Best 1500m: 3:42.9
No speed.
I'll go one further. I say Mo 3:28 Farah himself would struggle to break 50 in a blocks start 400m.
Even 3:28 is a shit slow pace when you look at 400m. 55.5. literally any high school kid can do that. Farah just has the endurance to run 3.75 back to back. No quicker than 50.
So out of those 5 guys, how many of them do you think are incapable of running? How many do you think are incapable of running 50?3 out of 5 of them averaged 58-59 for their 1500s.Another thing to note is that I think the question is not what can they run during marathon training, but what were they capable of running when they were at their fastest?Many of these guys simply never raced the 800m or 1500m very often, so I think picking out some college times isn't dispositive of much. I ran steeple 5k and 10k in college. I don't think I ever ran an open 800, and I ran one open 1500 my junior year (I won a tactical race at a conference meet to establish my PR of 3:59) and one my senior year (winning the event a dual meet at Williams College on a cold day to open the season). So my PR in the 1500 is 3:59. I never ran a 400 in a race setting. The only time I can point to is a mid 55s effort when I was going all out on the last rep of an 8 x 400 session. Now take that and imagine applying that to a national class athlete instead of a very high level D III athlete. I just cannot fathom that the vast majority of these guys couldn't eak out the times we are talking about.
?? wrote:
Callum Hawkins. 60 HM 2:10 Mary
Best 800m: 1:55
Best 1500m: 3:54
Yeah, sure he can run 52........
Chris Thompson 61 HM 2:11Mary
Best 800m: 1:53
Best 1500m: 3:41 (3:43 year he ran 61)
Dewi Griffiths 63 HM 28:28 10k
Best 1500m: 3:52
Jonathan Davies 13:23 5k
Best 800m: 1:54.9
Best 1500m: 3:43
Andy Vernon 27:42 10k
Best 1500m: 3:42.9
No speed.
Smoove wrote:
So out of those 5 guys, how many of them do you think are incapable of running? How many do you think are incapable of running 50?
3 out of 5 of them averaged 58-59 for their 1500s.
Another thing to note is that I think the question is not what can they run during marathon training, but what were they capable of running when they were at their fastest?
Many of these guys simply never raced the 800m or 1500m very often, so I think picking out some college times isn't dispositive of much. I ran steeple 5k and 10k in college. I don't think I ever ran an open 800, and I ran one open 1500 my junior year (I won a tactical race at a conference meet to establish my PR of 3:59) and one my senior year (winning the event a dual meet at Williams College on a cold day to open the season). So my PR in the 1500 is 3:59. I never ran a 400 in a race setting. The only time I can point to is a mid 55s effort when I was going all out on the last rep of an 8 x 400 session. Now take that and imagine applying that to a national class athlete instead of a very high level D III athlete. I just cannot fathom that the vast majority of these guys couldn't eak out the times we are talking about.
?? wrote:Callum Hawkins. 60 HM 2:10 Mary
Best 800m: 1:55
Best 1500m: 3:54
Yeah, sure he can run 52........
Chris Thompson 61 HM 2:11Mary
Best 800m: 1:53
Best 1500m: 3:41 (3:43 year he ran 61)
Dewi Griffiths 63 HM 28:28 10k
Best 1500m: 3:52
Jonathan Davies 13:23 5k
Best 800m: 1:54.9
Best 1500m: 3:43
Andy Vernon 27:42 10k
Best 1500m: 3:42.9
No speed.
None of them would even approach 50.
I've raced Davies and another 13:50 5k guy called Michael Callegari over 800m. They have NO SPEED. I pulled away SO EASILY. I can run 52 in an automatically timed, legit 400m. Not the 50s all these 14:30 runners claim to have done.
I guess we will just disagree.
Now, at 35 years old, a month after major surgery (and hopped up on painkillers), I ran 60-flat hand-timed this morning. My PR a decade and a half ago was 49.8
Open 400: 52.3 (HS dual meet)
400 Split: 50.0-50.7 in college many times
1500m: 3:52.9