Verheul method

Danny H? wrote:

He'd do 10 miles every morning

That´s the difference, didn´t hurt that much of his reactivity or whatever

Yep it's a noticeable difference granted. Also, Danny's intervals were actually quite hard with the really short rest where's Verheul's are much easier as had an equal length rest jog. Danny would often have 10-15 seconds between efforts but the volume was low so very much managable.

That said, Klaas Lok's PB's were almost identical to Danny's even without the added 10 miles in the morning. They both did intervals every day but Danny's were harder given the rest. Speculation obviously but perhaps Lok would have been even faster with a regular 60 min morning run on top of his daily easy intervals?

Interesting approaches for sure and I think definitely under valued. The specificity of their training is something we could all learn from.

Danny H,

I will search for it in Lok's own book later and paraphrase it here if I can find it, but Klaas Lok definitely did doubles alot of days, and he even did normal runs with pickups for variation.

A day with 10x400 in the morning and 6x1000 in the evening gives you 4k at 5k, 6k at HM and easily 18-20k in easy D1/ recovery.

Okay I found a week schedule. He definitely didnt double most days, but some days he did.

Understand that this isn't pure Verheul anymore.

Monday:

AM 5x2000 in 6:50

PM gymnastics

Tuesday:

AM endurance run with pickups 10k in 36 minutes

PM 6x1000 in 3:15

Wednesday:

AM endurance run with pickups 10k in 36 minutes

PM 15x200 in 34-33

Thursday:

AM 6x1000 in 3:15-3:10

Friday:

8x400 in 1:15-1:13

Saturday:

easy fartlek

Sunday:

National cross country championships 12k, 1st place.

____________________________

In Lok's book there are training plans/ schedules, from training 3 times a week to 8 times. Here is a standard schedule for working up to a 10k, training 7-8 times

Same thing here, this is Klaas Lok's method not classic Verheul anymore.

M

8x400 easy

T

AM endurance run in D2 with pickups 8-10k

PM 6x1000 + 5-10x100

W

6-8x1000 + 5-10x100

T

AM endurance run D2 with pickups 8-10k

PM 15x200

F

Rest

S

Fartlek with some anaerobic tempo's

S

endurance run in D2 or even D3 8-10k + 5-10x100

Many thanks for that. It makes it much more similar to Danny's training now actually with the more regular steady endurance work in the morning occasionally and then the intervals in the evening. The training Log for Henderson does say he usually did the 10 mile AM runs but I don't think it was gospel.

I do think it's a great idea, regular steady running and regular race pace work. The key will be doing the intervals slow enough as to not kill yourself for the next day. The idea that if you're not throwing up on the track after a session means you haven't worked hard enough is alien to most but it very much embraces the rule of specificity. Also, aerobic ability is maxes at very quickly. Most studies show that people's VO2 max barely increases at all and it's their specific fitness (economy) that improves. I think Paula Radcliffe's VO2 max actually went down a touch between when she was first tested compared to her Marathon World Record. She was just far more economical. Regularly hitting race paces, almost every day must surely help in that regard?

It's very interesting food for thought though and I'm sure some can take pieces of it into the overall puzzle. Even as much as doing strides every day.

Danny H? wrote:

Also, aerobic ability is maxes at very quickly. Most studies show that people's VO2 max barely increases at all and it's their specific fitness (economy) that improves.

Yes the running economy can improve a long time, but with good, progressive training over the years also the lactate threshold can improve towards closer and closer to the max HR, and the aerobic abilities of the muscle fibers that are recruited above the LT has also plenty of room to improve a long time. So you can train the FTa (intermediate) and FTx muscle fibers to function more efficiently aerobically. It takes years to maximize this, and you have to do right things to keep the progression going. The Verheul method can work well on this, you train at various different intensities that will recruit both of the FT muscle fiber types (if you have the FT´s) at intensities and rep distances that are repeatable throughout the training year.

Second week of training now and this is the best training method i ever did. My legs feel amazing when running. They're so wright about long slow distance, it destroys your form. Guys, try this! If you are interested i have the book of this method at home with different training schedules. I'm not trying to sell anything, i'm just excited about it

Please post the title of the book, and the year published.

'Het duurloopmisverstand' by Klaas Lok. Extra title is 'met de souplessemethode'. Year of publishing is July 2015

Thanks.

After only about 3 weeks training this method shaved 40 seconds of my 10k PR today. No long runs, no easy runs. Trained for 2 years with hard/easy method and wasnt getting any faster. I think this could work for anyone.

Johnfrog11 wrote:

After only about 3 weeks training this method shaved 40 seconds of my 10k PR today. No long runs, no easy runs. Trained for 2 years with hard/easy method and wasnt getting any faster. I think this could work for anyone.

Those 2 years before the last 3 weeks must have a lot to do with it too. In 3 weeks you won´t make miracles, but you obviously had a good base and I think that by this method you were able to take out some more money from the bank, figuratively speaking. The question is will you continue being faster in a long term, since you´ve now dropped the long and easy runs. Maybe, it seems that something wasn´t in balance in your training before, when you were "running hard one day and feel crap and sluggish on runs 2/3 days afterwards". But; congratulations!

I think you are wright. I think it has a lot more to do with increased efficiency. Since my stride felt much stronger. But i like training this way. Slogging along at 7.30/8 minute miles in the dark isnt really enjoyable. And for a good marathon you need the long run. But for 5k-10k training its a good method.

Hi Johnfrog,

Any more progress/updates? Are you still training this way?

Yes i still train this way. Ran a 5k pr 3 weeks ago. Still love to go out and run intervals every day. No injuries so far. Maybe not the best way to train, but it's fun and i'm getting faster.

Well if you're improving and having fun I'd say it's doing ok! Good for you, keep it up!

johnbeat wrote:

Yes i still train this way. Ran a 5k pr 3 weeks ago. Still love to go out and run intervals every day. No injuries so far. Maybe not the best way to train, but it's fun and i'm getting faster.

This is an interesting thread. Well, it's now May. I'm curious how johnxx has progressed over a longer period.

johnbeat wrote:

Yes i still train this way. Ran a 5k pr 3 weeks ago. Still love to go out and run intervals every day. No injuries so far. Maybe not the best way to train, but it's fun and i'm getting faster.

How fast did you go (more or less)?

Had a foot injury for 4 weeks. My hammertoes got me in trouble due to excessive running on pavement. Im Just starting back up again on soft underground now. Went from 18.15 5k to 17.30 5k in a few months. There's a club here thats train s with this method and I heard some guys improved a lot. But it probably is a method with higher risk of injury.