fastest in your town wrote:
She isn't using the word "tempo" in the usual sense, which is 10-mile to HM pace.
Her coach uses the phrases "aerobic tempo" (traditional tempo^) and "anaerobic tempo" (5k-10k pace).
So... is she taking breaks, or is it continuous in their lingo for that workout?
I believe that it's possible. I've trained like that and had similarly odd results
I have a relatively weak road 5k according to my other prs (I have run a handful of 15:01-15:05s)
At the same time though when event specific fit i've run 3:50 1500 on the track and a few 1:06 HMs on certified course with the same shitty or slighly slower 5ks during that same season but can run routine 4 mile tempos every other week around 20:00 +/- mins in those training blocks
I do the work around 5:00 (or just sub 5) for strength for both distances then either work on 60-62 pace (for mid d stuff) or 5:05-5:10 (for HM stuff) for specificity and it works out that I can PR in the over and under distances but just struggle in that mid range for lack of specific work there.
She probably just (like me in those blocks) isn't doing a ton of work in that 3k-5k range so shes not super comfortable there or going under that. Thats really it.
In what world does this make her in 14:30 5k shape. She needs to be turning over at least one or two 4:48 miles to break 15...
salad wrote:
On her instagram, she said she did a 4 mile tempo at 5:01, 5:03, 5:04, 4:56... HOW? That would make her 5k around 14:30. Is she in that good of shape?
Her 1500m PR is 4:00, according to Jack Daniels, that's about a 70 VDOT. 70 VDOT is 31:00 for 10k. This workout is 4 miles at 10k Pace.
For those saying that her 5k PR is only 15:30, I would just ask, has she ever been in a nice evenly paced/fast 5k or tried to chase a time at that distance? I've never seen one, but I am not sure as I don't pay that close of attention to results.
Her group runs these types of workouts along the Santa Ana river bike trail in Anaheim/Yorba Linda. Probably running point to point in the 1-2% downhill direction. If she had a tailwind, it is lightning fast...
This sounds about right. I ran for a coach who was one of Vigil's guys and this is what our "tempo" runs were like. The aerobic threshold runs were more like traditional tempo runs and the anaerobic threshold runs were more like the best effort you could muster for ~20 minutes on that day. My first time going under 15 for 5k was in one of these types of runs in early February. My 5k pr at the time was 15:18 and I passed through 5k during this workout in 14:57. I ran 14:46 later that month in an indoor race and 14:31 that April during outdoor. But consider her Brenda's workout more as a 4 mile time trial than a 4 mile tempo.
This girl needs to do XC World Trials coming up!
I believe she has run 15:25 on the roads at Carlsbad. But yeah, this was basically a time trial.
Every December/January she runs these amazing 'tempo' workouts but then seems to under perform. I'd say she is straining in those temposDoesn't mean much for her indoor championship and late spring/early summer races unfortunately as past results indicateShe's really good in practice. I'm the same way
salad wrote:
On her instagram, she said she did a 4 mile tempo at 5:01, 5:03, 5:04, 4:56... HOW? That would make her 5k around 14:30. Is she in that good of shape?
downhill tailwind wrote:
Her group runs these types of workouts along the Santa Ana river bike trail in Anaheim/Yorba Linda. Probably running point to point in the 1-2% downhill direction. If she had a tailwind, it is lightning fast...
This is the best explanation I've seen for her "tempo" run times. I've run this bike trail and it could be could be very fast and yet the runner would feel like the run wasn't actually aided. And, of course, these runs are really time trials and not tempo runs.
I saw something about BMart's tempos and thought Bmart's tampons.
moran
I remember watching her do a flotrack WOW from 2013 and she did 8x1000 all under 3 min with an all out 400 in 55 at the end. Seems possible, but I do agree that this probably wasn't a tempo run and most likely more of a race effort (unless by tempo she means something totally different than most do).
3 years ago she said she was doing 3 miles at 5:00 pace. Now she is doing 4 miles at 5 minute pace. Forget the terminology. They are "race" efforts. Instead of saying they are racing, they call them anaerobic runs!
She does 10 mile tempos at 5:45 pace.
McMillan chart does say she should be able to run 15:05 5k.
Vigil is the master. He knows what he is doing.
Her tempo's are all false. They like to play games with people, but the only ones that actually care are the sub par running world. All elites know she and her husband have been lying for years.
Ask 10 different runners to define "tempo" and you'll get 10 different answers probably.
Anyway, there's probably two main types used in my training group - one which is broadly half marathon / the pace you can sustain for an hour which you might do for, say 30-40mins total, and another which is as fast as you can go for circa 20mins without really digging into the pit and letting your form fail.
This run is likely the latter and v impressive it is too.
When are you supposed to train very hard if not in the winter months? I would argue that more runners under perform through training hard too close to the big race than do so by training hard months previously.
As Cerutty says of his "conditioning period" (October to March in the northern hemisphere); "we often train to exhaustion in this period. You have to break down in order to build up."
salad wrote:
On her instagram, she said she did a 4 mile tempo at 5:01, 5:03, 5:04, 4:56... HOW? That would make her 5k around 14:30. Is she in that good of shape?
Over analysis is killing running.
If she ran 5:10 or even 5:20 how different do you think her heart rate would be? Let's say it's 10 beats per minute less. Do you think that would make a hill of beans difference in what her Temp Run was designed to do?
Answer.....No difference.
You guys are such "runner geeks".
Run Doctor wrote:
salad wrote:On her instagram, she said she did a 4 mile tempo at 5:01, 5:03, 5:04, 4:56... HOW? That would make her 5k around 14:30. Is she in that good of shape?
Over analysis is killing running.
If she ran 5:10 or even 5:20 how different do you think her heart rate would be? Let's say it's 10 beats per minute less. Do you think that would make a hill of beans difference in what her Temp Run was designed to do?
Answer.....No difference.
You guys are such "runner geeks".
Why are you bringing up running 5:10 or 5:20? NONE of her miles were that slow.
Do you think there is a difference between 4:56 mile pace and her "4 mile tempo pace"?? I bet that is much more than 10 bpm.
Run Doctor wrote:
salad wrote:On her instagram, she said she did a 4 mile tempo at 5:01, 5:03, 5:04, 4:56... HOW? That would make her 5k around 14:30. Is she in that good of shape?
Over analysis is killing running.
If she ran 5:10 or even 5:20 how different do you think her heart rate would be? Let's say it's 10 beats per minute less. Do you think that would make a hill of beans difference in what her Temp Run was designed to do?
Answer.....No difference.
You guys are such "runner geeks".
Are you even a runner? If not, I will tell you, a 10-20 sec difference in mile pace around 5 min pace (4-7%) makes a huge difference in effort and stress and response.
Yesitmatterz wrote:
Run Doctor wrote:Over analysis is killing running.
If she ran 5:10 or even 5:20 how different do you think her heart rate would be? Let's say it's 10 beats per minute less. Do you think that would make a hill of beans difference in what her Temp Run was designed to do?
Answer.....No difference.
You guys are such "runner geeks".
Are you even a runner? If not, I will tell you, a 10-20 sec difference in mile pace around 5 min pace (4-7%) makes a huge difference in effort and stress and response.
With all due respect I can do the math in terms of time difference. My comment was referring to the difference in heart rate if she ran a 5 minute miles versus a 5:10 mile. Do you know what it is? Show us a study that provides the actual data not your opinion.
My point was that is she really receiving any benefit from running Tempos at a pace where people are comment that she is "straining not training" versus a slower pace.
What causes most injuries is training too long at too high a level of effort. This is why we recommend that adolescent athletes concentrate on building aerobic capacity over anaerobic capacity.