What Are Triathletes Such Tightwads About Drafting?

This is what draftlash looks like.

I need to add that tryathletes on the bike leg are like racewalkers. We scream at one to just run and we scream at the other to just draft. Both are acting very unnaturally and are trying to whisper the loudest.

It's a lot easier to just write off triathlon as an irrelevant sport than to worry about their discussions over drafting.

Drafting on the swim leg is far more beneficial than the bike or run legs, there is abundant evidence to this fact at your fingertips. If only there was a way to access it.....

Non-draft legal tris are meant to be an individual sport. Draft legal tris (ncaa, international, Olympic years) are not. There isn't that much more to it.

If you aren't drafting on the swim leg I hope you're leading the race.

Wise One wrote:

What kind of messed up time trial starts with a mass pack? Triathlons that's what.

Either you do real time trials like how cyclists start time trials or you don't call triathlons time trials.

It *is* a time trial since it is meant to be ridden alone. The bikes are TT bikes.

Since people finish the swim and transition at different times, it's not a mass start. but the variability in biking speed is huge in triathlons so you have strong swimmers getting passed by strong cyclists. the no draft rule is the only way to maintain the integrity of the bike leg.

It's obvious Wise One doesn't have the athletic talent to compete in a triathlon. He/She is strictly a puny runner with a big cowardly mouth.

I'll tell you what.....After completing a full tri.....even one with no drafting allowed, I would love to beat your skinny runner ass into the ground. You are a girly little punk with a big keyboard warrior mouth.

I bet you got your ass kicked every day in high school.

longroad wrote:

Wise One wrote:

What kind of messed up time trial starts with a mass pack? Triathlons that's what.

Either you do real time trials like how cyclists start time trials or you don't call triathlons time trials.

It *is* a time trial since it is meant to be ridden alone. The bikes are TT bikes.

Since people finish the swim and transition at different times, it's not a mass start. but the variability in biking speed is huge in triathlons so you have strong swimmers getting passed by strong cyclists. the no draft rule is the only way to maintain the integrity of the bike leg.

It is a mass start. You don't have tryathletes coming out of the swim 2 minutes apart individually like you would do for a proper individual time trial. They come out in mostly one large group because EVERYONE drafts on the swim leg and never complain about saving 15-25% of their energy drafting in the swim:

See how hypocritical and stupid triathlons are?

Wise One touches boys wrote:

It's obvious Wise One doesn't have the athletic talent to compete in a triathlon. He/She is strictly a puny runner with a big cowardly mouth.

I'll tell you what.....After completing a full tri.....even one with no drafting allowed, I would love to beat your skinny runner ass into the ground. You are a girly little punk with a big keyboard warrior mouth.

I bet you got your ass kicked every day in high school.

I would like to do a triathlon as much as I would like to do a racewalk.

First, I was doing triathlons before draft legal triathlons existed or at least were common.

Remember draft legal races are pretty much limited to ITU professional races.

Here are a couple of reasons as to why drafting is not popular in triathlon IMHO:

1) The sport developed with no drafting so it is in the DNA of the sport. ITU instituted draft legal in an attempt to make it more popular. Not sure if it did that or not. The most popular event is the Ironman--drafting is not allowed.

2) Many see the sport as an INDIVIDUAL one. Drafting obviously reduces that.

As for swimming, I think for one thing the advantage in swimming is way smaller than in cycling. Yes water is more dense, but resistance increases exponentially with velocity and swimming velocity is just not that great. The link below gives time savings over 400m.

http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/9710869

This paper shows a 3-5% performance improvement.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jean-Claude_Chatard/publication/10678070_Drafting_Distance_in_Swimming/links/561e805b08ae50795aff0442.pdf

3% is far less of an advantage than the upwards of 40- 60% of power savings you can see in cycling drafting (depending on position. 3rd person in a paceline saves more energy than 2nd person. 4th person and back in a paceline does not get much more of an advantage).

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=msdT4iQ50cgC&oi=fnd&pg=PA147&dq=drafting+in++cycling&ots=Uejj1TTe9f&sig=j09d2dxln5_yBrj5oVP_a-xYfLk#v=onepage&q=drafting%20in%20%20cycling&f=false

Back to drafting being okay on the swim, well it would be very challenging to enforce such a rule in a race. You would need officials in some sort of boat on the swim course and it can be crowded already.

I also think there is a safety issue in drafting or riding in packs in cycling. Few triathletes come to the sport with a bike racing background. Going 25 mph and one squirrelly rider can be bad news for everyone else. Even pro triathletes have issues with bike handling in a pack. The group rides in Boulder from what I hear are always a little cautious when the triathletes show up.

Running drafting is not big either. At marathon pace it is about 2%. (A nice piece on Pugh's work).

http://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/does-drafting-help-in-running

All of you joggers are missing the point. Draft-legal tris are done on normal road bikes, but non-draft legal tris are done on Tri/TT bikes. On a tri bike, your hands are not near the brakes. Encouraging drafting on tri-bikes would be extremely dangerous.

You obviously didn't read your own link about drafting and swimming:

For drag, the most advantageous drafting distances were 0 and 50 cm back from the toes of the lead swimmer. Drag was reduced by 21% and 20%, respectively

It's not a 3-5% drag reduction in swimming like you claimed, it is 20% drag reduction which is huge.

And you are not going to get a 40-60% drag reduction in cycling unless you are riding into a headwind in a mass pack.

My point about how hypocritical and stupid triathlons are has been further supported. QED.

Wise One wrote:

A triathlete wrote:

Let me explain in terms that you guys can understand. If you draft immediately behind a group of cyclists, you can go the same speed with about 20-30% less power.

If this principle was true in marathon racing a 3:00 hour marathon runner could draft behind a 2:20 marathon runner and they would both finish at the same time.

This surely does not seem fair right?

That doesn't answer my question. Why don't tryathletes just draft on the bike leg when they are in a mass pack race? Why are triathlons so stupid?

It is against the rules, and there are marshals out there to enforce those rules. Kinda like WADA, except that they actually look for violations and punish violations.

Pissed my Pence wrote:

All of you joggers are missing the point. Draft-legal tris are done on normal road bikes, but non-draft legal tris are done on Tri/TT bikes. On a tri bike, your hands are not near the brakes. Encouraging drafting on tri-bikes would be extremely dangerous.

Easy, get the tryathletes to actually develop bike handling skills or just banned aerobars in all events.

And real cyclists do team time trials with full aerobars going much faster the tryathletes do. And they draft.

Pissed my Pence wrote:

Wise One wrote:

That doesn't answer my question. Why don't tryathletes just draft on the bike leg when they are in a mass pack race? Why are triathlons so stupid?

It is against the rules, and there are marshals out there to enforce those rules. Kinda like WADA, except that they actually look for violations and punish violations.

Oh, you mean like racewalk judges to see who can draft the loudest without drafting. Would we also see all the tryathletes violate the drafting rules when we review the camera footage or is it the same as in racewalking where it is only drafting if it is visible to the naked eye?

Wise One wrote:

Pissed my Pence wrote:

All of you joggers are missing the point. Draft-legal tris are done on normal road bikes, but non-draft legal tris are done on Tri/TT bikes. On a tri bike, your hands are not near the brakes. Encouraging drafting on tri-bikes would be extremely dangerous.

Easy, get the tryathletes to actually develop bike handling skills or just banned aerobars in all events.

And real cyclists do team time trials with full aerobars going much faster the tryathletes do. And they draft.

TEAM time trials. People training and working together on a regular basis to work as a single unit, not competitors trying to beat each other, who oh, by the way, are slightly disoriented after just hopping out of the ocean.

I hope you can see where your comparison breaks down?

Wise One wrote:

Pissed my Pence wrote:

It is against the rules, and there are marshals out there to enforce those rules. Kinda like WADA, except that they actually look for violations and punish violations.

Oh, you mean like racewalk judges to see who can draft the loudest without drafting. Would we also see all the tryathletes violate the drafting rules when we review the camera footage or is it the same as in racewalking where it is only drafting if it is visible to the naked eye?

There are violations all over the place. Those violations are 1. dangerous and 2. illegal. Hence, the whining you see on ST.

Your argument is stupid. Drafting in the swim leg is much more dangerous than drafting in the bike leg. The marshals can't even see if someone drowns on the swim leg because EVERYONE is drafting to save 20% in drag.

Pissed my Pence wrote:

Wise One wrote:

Easy, get the tryathletes to actually develop bike handling skills or just banned aerobars in all events.

And real cyclists do team time trials with full aerobars going much faster the tryathletes do. And they draft.

TEAM time trials. People training and working together on a regular basis to work as a single unit, not competitors trying to beat each other, who oh, by the way, are slightly disoriented after just hopping out of the ocean.

I hope you can see where your comparison breaks down?

If you are so afraid of tryathletes on bikes, then tell them to wear body armor like downhillers do. Because drafting is a natural part of cycling and any real cyclist can do it, aerobars or not.

Wise One wrote:

Your argument is stupid. Drafting in the swim leg is much more dangerous than drafting in the bike leg. The marshals can't even see if someone drowns on the swim leg because EVERYONE is drafting to save 20% in drag.

Following someone on the swim isn't dangerous at all. There are TT swim starts and mass swim starts. The only difference in safety is the number of people in one area. Besides, when you swim, you look down, not ahead, so you don't know if you are drafting until you feel the bubbles from their kick (or get kicked... ouch).

A pack of competitors riding 28mph on their elbows with no brakes? Significantly more dangerous.

I am not making an argument. I am stating facts. Triathletes gripe about drafting because 1. it is illegal, 2. it is unsafe, 3. it is illegal, 4. it is an unfair advantage, 5. it is illegal, and 6. it is illegal.