We have better golfers.
We have better golfers.
The point I am trying to make is not about the need to run but about the ability to run. Let's just take 100 6th grade Kenyan children and 100 6th grade children from the US and make them run a km a fast as they can, the results would speak for themselves, BTW 30 years ago the results would have been different.
Football is a dumb answer. Other nations don't play the sport. The US is a world leader in many other sports. Just look at USA's Olympic medal total in Athens. We can't rule every sport.
Right now distance running belongs to the African nations. The US has some very talent runners, but one the whole the Africans win. Heck, the Europeans are getting beaten by these very same Africans.
Lets just count our bleshings that we got two Olympic distance medals at Athens. Oh yes, there was also Alan Webb two 3:50 miles last year. Things aren't all that bad for US distance runners.
roi de l'Afrique wrote:
The point I am trying to make is not about the need to run but about the ability to run. Let's just take 100 6th grade Kenyan children and 100 6th grade children from the US and make them run a km a fast as they can, the results would speak for themselves, BTW 30 years ago the results would have been different.
For your test to work what you would need to do is take 100 US babies and have them grow up in Kenya and have 100 Kenyan babies grow up in the US. Then when they get to sixth grade have them race against each other. If the Kenyans win we can agree they possess a better ability to run. But if the Kenyans lose to the US kids, but then go on to wipe the floor with them in a game of basketball, we can agree that there may be many other factors at work.
I am well aware the results would have been different 30 years ago. Much of the change has to do with greater organization in the African countries though.
It sounds like you are ready to slit your wrists or jump off the roof.....before you do either of these consider this......
How many American distance runners plan their training schedules to run a world class cross country race in March? The last time I looked the american cross country season falls between Sept and late November.
The problem is not necessarily money, it's a matter of priorities and planning. I'd be curious to see the competition schedule that the top American runners have laid out for themselves for the next 2-3 years. How many of them even have a specific calendar of events laid out that far into the future? And I don't just mean a "general" plan. I'm talking about a details, specific plans.
It appears to me that many of the best American runners seem to be constantly coming off of an injury and are stuck with trying to make up for lost training time. I'd then like to see the same sort of schedule/plan for the top Kenyan/Ethiopia/Moroccan, etc. runners. How many of them are constantly fighting off injury? How many of them are scrambling to make up for lost training time. How many of them are in a position to pick and choose their races and command enough appearance money to make it worthwhile to show up at any given meet/race?
I have no idea what happened to Ritz this weekend, but to actually think that he had a chance to run with the big boys after coming off yet another injury was naive at best and just plan stupid at worst. You don't get to be world class off of 4-6 months of training. It take years of solid uninterrupted training to get ready to compete at that level. Who is the last American distance runner who was able to train injury free for 3-4 years in a row? I can't think of one.
The h.s., college, post-collegiate training system in this country for the most part sucks. The odds are inherently against American runners from the moment they show any sort of national caliber promise. Until the system is overhauled we can pretty much forget about competing at the top level.
Along those lines, if the rumors about Rupp going to Oregon later this month are true then you can kiss that career good bye too. It's bad enough that he has Salazar as his coach, but to plug him into the 3 seasons back to back year after year meat grinder is a perfect receipt for failure.
ritz_fanGofortheGold wrote:
Michael Phelps, with his swimming endurance. Lance Armstrong also.
Can you name an American athlete you think would be a world beater as a distance runner who is currently in another sport?
C'mon....a multi-gold medal winner and a six time tour de France champ? You think they made the wrong decision? Neither of those guys would be better than a 2:15 thon, probably more like 2:20.
If you wanted to argue that America was losing most of its quality running talent to investment banking, I could agree with that.
im saying its where they concentrate their focus
Money Man wrote:
The US has great drug free distance runners. If Meb, Abdi, Shay, Brown, Sell, Culpepper, Broe and others along with Ritz trained to peak for this race the US would have a top three team. There is no money in cross. I repeat no no no money. It take a lot of time and effort to travel and interrupt your training for no money. These guys are not stupid they go for the money as they should.This is why a college freshman is our number one runner.
Dang, why didn't I think of this. It explains why Americans are cleaning up on the roads and track vs. cross AND why MWithrow is our #1 cross man. Brilliant.
As I have said before...the biggest diversion of American distance running's resources are extreme sports. If you can't import East Africans you have to win with skinny, dorky suburban white kids...they are all snowboarding, BMX'ing, road-luging and surfing now. If Pre were 18 years old in 2005 he would be smoking pot, making money and getting laid on the snowboard circuit. He would leave Eugene for Bend after one semester at Oregon. Have you looked at the prize structures for some of the extreme sports? I will find a MINOR event from this month that pays better than the WIN at IAAF XC and provide a link.
Disgusted with myself wrote:
How's that AIDS thing treating you guys? Do your leaders still deny it comes from HIV? That speaks volumes about your society and where it is heading.
Don't ever lecture me on health issues.
Yeah, lecture George "AIDS promoter" Bush...
You probably did not think of this because your as stupid as most of the morons on this board. All of these athletes with maybe the exception of Sell make 6 figures. Many have $500,000 homes. They did not make this money by running races that don't pay. They know they only have so many races in a career. Some runners such as Deena Kastor receive $250,000 for appearance money. Runners may not begin a career thinking about money, but after they make it, that's what it is all about. A career can be short lived just look at the way people turned on Ritz over one race. These athletes are PROFESSIONAL, meaning money. People on this board have a hard time understanding this concept. They follow these runners from high school and do not fully understand the athletes are adults with adult obligations, not part timers holding down full time jobs. I think you would all be amazed if you could see how their contracts are drawn up with bonuses and performance clauses. For example a marathoner may get a bonus of $50,000 to achieve a certain place in the NY marathon, but he may get a $50,000 bonus if he runs a sub 2:10,
in which case he may decide to run a fast course like Chicago. Contracts have a major influence on our best distance runners like it or not.
Simple, it's a widespread lack of commitment to excellence. It shows through in this thread from people who can't even seem to differentiate between "your" and "you're" or "it's" and "its".
o, america wrote:
Yeah, lecture George "AIDS promoter" Bush...
Care to explain this or baack it up or should we just wonder about it?
It's cultural, stupid. America is crappy at everything except things that no one else does or cares about, like football and shooting steroids into each others' buttocks in shithouse stalls.
Money man is right on. The top US distance runners are not running cross because there is not money in it. You cannot look at poor African countries and say "its not the money because the top finishing countries have less money than the US."
1) you do not know this. you do not know how much money Ethiopia and Kenya put into a cross team compared to the US which puts no money into it. I know Ethiopia and Kenya make world cross a top priority. They establish teams and get those runners on the team to train together at altitude 5 to 6 weeks prior to worlds. They have govt. funding. USATF puts close to nothing into forming the best US team possible.
2) you have to look at money in relative terms. Some US distance runners do not find it financial beneficial to run the US cross nats. So, those who are just looking for a free trip overseas will compete, or those top runners with incentive clauses in their contracts (which few have such incentives).
If USATF put more prize money in the CC nats and/or paid the runners to compete at worlds (something like 5grand per qualifier, then another 5grand bonus for those who score) then the top dogs would not only show up at cross nats, but compete at worlds, Just look at how many of our top US distance runners opt out of competing at world to do other races where they know they will get paid.
The bottom line is YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Do some research, I bet you'll find African countries investing more into their cc teams that you ever thought. Also, in researching, thing in relative cost of living terms or per capita terms in looking at monetary figures.
All this "runners should run for the sake of running" is B.S. Money Man is right. We are talking about adults who want/need to make money to provide for the lifestyle they choose. That may include buying a home, establishing a retirement fund, health insurance, helping out family, starting their own family, becoming as financial independent as possible. These runners approach an age in which they do not want to rely on others for financial support. They know that they will be able to make money running for only a short period of their adult lives, so they want to make money while they can.
Sure, some Pro runners will opt to compete at worlds, but to ensure that enough do to make up a competitive team, money needs to be made available. *note that I use the term "Pro" runner as opposed to "Elite". "Pro" runners make money and treat the sport as a business." "Elite" runners are those who are at a high level, but are not making money and/or not treating the sport as a business.
If you argue any other way, you are absolutely wrong. Just survey those top US distance runners who did not race US cc nats and ask why. Also, ask if there were significantly more money in running CC would they include it as a priority in their racing schedule. Just look at road racing. When ever there is big "US only" money, all the top dogs show.
"your an idiot"
definAtely
Sorry with my grammar-
Don't be fooled, not all kenyan run, they have jobs too.people actually go for the sport they do perform better, of course we all all love money,others love to do certain sports but they can't .Obvious, they will choose what they are good at, remember it is only few tribe in kenya that can produce runners,they love the sport and they are good at it,wether there is money or not, kip keino,Amos biwott and Ben Jipcho did it without anything, it is not about money nor is the only sport. Soccer is the popular sport in the world, how many people know about american football? only american and few countries. It is not a big thing outside United State.
United states can do better in running if they get support and appreciation. No body care about runners here, even though kenyan federation is corrupt they do still care, popularity is high over there,u can see in the front page of newspapers sometimes that is not going to happen here.NCAA system is another sick system that should be abolished, more talent is wasted at the period where they should just concentrate and do what they need to peak, they run them to score points for college after college they are done, Money is Motivation Factor, i believe if Dathan had to go Pro after finishing third in world Juniors, i think he should be somewhere there in top ten,Kenyan runners don't work to pay rent, no bills, they get support when they are still young, with proper training. believe me or not, American can do well just like the kenyans,Tergat did not run to school nor Bernard lagat did. that shows they got talent, Lagat has been training here for quite long with americans but those guys can't get his level of performance, at least they got some advantage, even if lagat was born here and study the chances are , he could be still be a fast runner, just like Gregory konchella was born in Netherlands, the father had all,Konchellah parent were rich, political family,his brother now is Cabinet minister..(Governor)but it shows they got running talent. If they can do it everybody can do it. believe me or not.
But the Issue of TV,Video games and cars that is total bullshit, am an italian dealing with sport analysis we did conclude that african, wether african american are genetically gifted in sports,Football,soccer,Basketball,Sprint,long distance,boxing and years to come they gonna dominate all event.But they sleeping power is the continent of Africa once they get stable, they are MORE LIKELY to dominate all sports from Golf to Tennis,Football to Rugby,Only sport white will still have a chance was distance running,cheerleading and wind surfing. the rest gonna be history.Mucciano-Milan
Sorry with my grammar-atleast i have italian that am fluent
Madein82 wrote:
This has got to be a joke..
surely,
if not your an idiot
What about my "an idiot"?
Funny the first post highlights 'drug free'.
Many more people test positive for drugs within athletics in America than practically any other country. Just because you are getting beaten by some country in a sport, people tend to assume they're not clean (oh, it cna't possibly be that yuo're simply not as good?!!!). Many other factors in play, as the rest of this thread suggests. Maybe you just don't like taking a look in the mirror.
We have more because we test more duh.