Why can't the U.S produce better distance runners??

Don't you mean "immigrate"?

The REAL Deal wrote:

Which is why people emigrate here.

Rx wrote:

We need to get our runner's on better performance-enhancing chemicals.

American distance runner don't take drugs.

I actually thought he made a good point. I'm thinking of printing this out just so I can remind myself I probably have better things to do than sitting at my computer.

Streamofconsciousness, what a GREAT post.

First of all, we do produce some great distance runners. So let's not be too hard on ourselves. But, our talent pool isn't deep enough compared to the East Africans.

Even though I agree to some extent that the US is a fat, lazy society, I don't think that completely accounts for us not being deep enough. As I've pointed out before, we're still dominating the world in swimming. Only swim-crazy Australia can come close to the US in this sport that is very unforgiving to fat, lazy kids.

A couple of other possibilities:

1. America's athletic talent pool is diluted into many more sports than East Africans. For example, the American black inner city athlete is sorely underrepresented in distance running. Think of what some of those small, fast basketball players could do in distance running if they focused on that sport through high school.

2. As opposed to USA swimming which has a well developed club program, the US leaves the development of distance runners largely to the schools. This is a hit or miss proposition. I'm convinced some talented kids just don't excel early enough to get the opportunities to reach their potential in the sport.

RunDaddy makes a very good point about the US doing well in swimming....a sport which requires at least 4 hours a day in the pool to reach the top level....hardly lazy...

One problem with the US is that it is difficult to commute to work by bike or on foot in many places....the roads are not set up to accommodate cyclists and pedestrians in many places.

Compare the US with countries like Germany, Holland and Sweden...where there are many bike paths and lanes, even in the centre of the big cities(Berlin, Amsterdam, Stockholm).

American kids are getting very lazy now with computer games and other indoor activities. There is less ``unstructured`` outdoor activity, so the base is no longer there like it used to be.

I don't think people like to talk about it but there has got to be a genetic link to success and failure in distance running. We WANT it to be due to laziness, because that is cureable. Just work harder, but if you accept the genetic theory then all the hard work in the world will not help.

We like to think that "everyone" has a chance if they just work out harder. It's the American way right? Well I guaruntee that todd williams, bob kennedy, webb, ritz, etc.. all worked plenty hard. It's just that the geneticly superiour kenyans and ethiopians worked that hard and flat out spanked them.

This is not an attempt to discredit the africans, it's not like they can wake up in the morning and win gold. But I think that a kenyan given the same work outs as say Ritz (for example) will be the superior runner.

streamofconsciousness wrote:

YES, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE EXCEPTIONS, BUT AS A GENERAL RULE, THE SOFT MAN RAISED IN THE LAP OF LUXURY WHOSE DEAREST THING IN LIFE IS ELECTRONICS AND VIDEOGAMES WILL NEVER BEAT THE HARD MAN RAISED ON THE HIGH PLAINS OF AFRICA WHOSE DEAREST THING IN LIFE IS SEEING HIS FAMILY STAY ONE STEP AHEAD OF THE BLADE OF SURVIVAL.

Tell that to the US Swim Team, gymnastics team, etc. Those sports take just as much hard work and dedication as running. The US kicks butt in all levels there.

I think the "fat and lazy" argument is bogus in this situation. Sure, we have lots of fat and lazy people, but we still have a higher *number* of fit people than Kenya, Ethiopia, etc.

So what's the difference? Youth programs. Kids run in Kenya. By the time they get to high school level they've been running for a while. If you look around the US you'll see youth swim teams and gymnastics teams everywhere. In my town alone there must be a half dozen youth gymnastics teams and dozen or more youth swim teams. Youth running? One team.

In swimming a kid will hit high school with a 4-6 years of age group competition under their belt, the same is true for gymnastics.

In running youth meets are rare before junior high so they don't start with the sport seriously until high school. They might just start to be good by their senior year, they MIGHT be able to run in college, then we shoot them out the other end with little or no support. If they don't show promise in that brief 4-5 year period odds are they'll stop running competitively. They start out from behind the 8 ball so they'll often try to make up for lost time and end up injured. Any wonder why we don't excel?

Instead of whining about a bunch of crap that has NOTHING to do with our ability to compete (Bingham, RW, Galloway, fatties, etc) get some parents together and organize a youth team. If every neighborhood pool can have a swim team, why the heck can't every neighborhood have a running team? It's not what the 30-50 year olds are doing that makes a difference, it's the 6-10 year olds.

I've never been a huge fan of the genetic superiority argument. It's an awful hard thing to prove, because you can't decouple the group in question from its environment, lifestyle, culture, etc... But, let's assume that certain East African tribes do have a genetic advantage. I still don't think that tells the whole story as to their dominance.

I wonder what the per capita percentage is of Ethiopian and Kenyan kids who participate in the sport of running versus the same in the US. Besides football (soccer), what other sports in East Africa are drawing their top athletes?

There is no question runners like Kennedy, Ritz, Webb, etc.. work just as hard as the East Africans. But if a higher percentage of our kids participated in running, we'd likely produce more world class runners.

Keith Stone wrote:

In swimming a kid will hit high school with a 4-6 years of age group competition under their belt, the same is true for gymnastics.

In running youth meets are rare before junior high so they don't start with the sport seriously until high school. They might just start to be good by their senior year, they MIGHT be able to run in college, then we shoot them out the other end with little or no support. If they don't show promise in that brief 4-5 year period odds are they'll stop running competitively. They start out from behind the 8 ball so they'll often try to make up for lost time and end up injured. Any wonder why we don't excel?

This is the best post on this thread. A while back I complained about our lousy Middle School program (of which I now happily assist in coaching) and I was lambasted on this board for taking Middle School running "too seriously."

We do not need to be running kids too hard or racing them too much at a young age, but if they do little or no running until high school they're way behind and more prone to injury while trying to catch up too fast.

The high schools around here with the best distance running programs are all private(either K-12 or 7-12). They're able to develop their runners younger, and by the time they hit 9th grade they're ready for more serious competition. This is not a coincidence.

What an OUTSTANDING post. YOU hit the nail on the head. I wish EVERY American distance runner would read your post and do everything in their power to change. ABSOLUTELY GREAT!

I don't disagree entirely. IF the only choice US kids had were running and soccer, we'd be great at both. In stad we excel in basketball and football (of course no body else plays football.) However, I think if we don't look at the genetic or the VERY least, similar physical charateristics that make up your typical 10k gold medalist/WR holder, then we aren't really looking at the whole picture.

So America typically dominates sprinting because they are the only ones working hard and working harder than the american distance runners?

Out of the few east africans who live here or are born here, several are now our top distance runners. Does this mean they are less lazy than others?

The Africans born and raised in France and other countries who dominate thier sport are less lazy than thier country men?

Didn't one of the best Kenyan disatnce runners of all time live above the school that his father taught in?

Face it, people of different sub groups are different physiologically/physically which may result in an advantage in a particular sport.

The USA is doing better than most countries with similar populations.

There's one big difference about swimming: They are not dealing with a large population with a genetic advantage to compete against. Also, getting kids to excel at such an early age isn't the answer. I'm not aware of any successful attempts to improve long-term running performance by a lot of structured training at as young of an age as swimmers do.

Because most runners turn to running because they weren't good at anything else. This country glorifies basketball, football and baseball over the others. Kids strive at being the best at those sports. When they realize they aren't good enough, they then turn to running. The good runners who may have had stellar running careers play other sports.

Exactly. You can't argue the other way. It's like saying that if Shaq worked hard enough, he too could be a great distance runner. Physiologically he is pre-dispositioned to failure.

Where'd you get that idea? How can you be the richest nation in the world and the most indebted nation at the same time? Even our supposed military might -- which sucks up half of our national budget -- is largely financed by Japan and China. The U.S. is a paper tiger. Refusing to face that reality is like believing Ritz is one of the best in the world.[/quote]

Where did you get that?? America a "paper tiger" yeah right man. America is the reason that countries like China is seeing growth at 9%. Our ability to spend and import the way we do is to our advantage. Our country is a country of convience and service, we don't produce we consume. Take away our purchasing power and the entire world WILL collapse. Think what you want, but America is the center of economic development it has been for a while and always will be. And as far as our "so called military might which sucks up half of the budget" as you so hippishly put it. I am a part of the Army and the military is the reason you can come on here and bash a country wou live in. Don't bite the hand that feeds you Benedict Arnold.

Ever hear of Football, Baseball, and Basketball. That is why we don't produce as many good distance runners as other countries. The top sports here pay better. So why would one want to be a distance runner? Even a pro indoor soccer player with average talent can earn a better salary than some national caliber distance runners. It is all about the money. Even our sprints could be better if it weren't for the better paying sports in our country. Look at a guy like Tyree Washington that is/was a world class 400 runner. But at the possiblity he could play in the NFL he jumped at it. We actually have more kids running at the high school level than Kenya does. However these are for the most part the kids that couldn't make the football team and bang a cheerleader. The money is just not in distance running if it were we would see it on T.V. instead of a repeat of the 1972 NCAA championship basketball game at 3 a.m..