re-test Bekele's blood n urine sample immediately

Thoughtful piece of Analysis wrote:

kikKomen Soi sauce wrote:

Fixed.

I used the "sub 12:50" because it is obvious they are on the sauce, whereas I am generally quite sceptical of those who run sub-13:00 but the term was not used because it is a grey area. I believe that naturally talented athletes could possibly run under 13:00, like I'm not sure all the Kenyans running in the 12:50s are on the sauce, just like Craig Mottram I don't think he was a cheat or Solinsky but I don't know about the latter. I have friends that live and train in Melbourne and are adamant he is clean.

I like the time you picked…because it is the same time I picked. What a surprise.

I am bored. Let's change the subject to:

1) What do you guess the best times that can be done clean at the present time are?

2) How much of an effect does EPO have?

I'll go first:

Men: 2:04:20 marathon, 26:30 10K, 12:48 5k, 3:26.34 1500m

These numbers also mean that Galen Rupp and Mo Farah could be clean!

(Alberto should still go to jail and be banned.) Mo Farah looks a lot more suspicious than Galen, and now it looks like he is not telling the truth about his Jama Aden connection. On Mo's side, he has only improved from 12:57 to 12:53 since joining Salazar…which is not that much at all. It is really only his finishing speed which has improved a lot.

I actually think that there is a very good chance that Galen Rupp is clean!

Galen has run times that I think can be achieved clean. He does not have a suspicious progression. Galen has improved gradually and consistently in his running career. Galen Rupp is tested more than most runners in the world. He is is tested about every 2.5 weeks on average. He has been tested for many years and has never failed a test. (I would also say exactly the same for Shannon Rowbury. I don't think Shannon Rowbury is suspicious at all.) I just hate Alberto Salazar…and think he should go to jail.

OK?

Women:

2:18:00 marathon, 29:45 10K,14:24 5K, 3:53 1500m

I think EPO (for elites) would take 2% off these times, as a conservative estimate…maybe up to 2.5%, or maybe up to 3% in women…since they have about 1/3 less total hemoglobin mass than men…so the effect might be larger in women.

Go:

Roho wrote:

That progression is a disgrace and completely drug fuelled. You lot bang on about Buttchard, a young athlete making reasonable progress, but when it comes to this demi god and these extreme levels it's ok. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Butchart was running 14:48 when he was 18, Bekele 13:20

Berkele improved by 43 seconds over his entire career.

Buchart has improved by 1 min 40 seconds in the last threes years alone....

tony the tiger wrote:

2004 12:37.35 Hengelo 31 MAY

2003 12:52.26 Oslo 27 JUN

2002 13:26.58 Milano 05 JUN

2001 13:13.33 Sevilla 08 JUN

2000 13:20.57 Rieti 03 SEP

Dear Mr. Tiger,

Of course Bekele was juiced. This was the same time as Alberto told the world that you MUST dope to be competitive at the World level.

If you are a big enough name the IAAF and your countries governing body will protect you from ever testing positive.

The combination of these 2 facts has created the existence of both Mo Farah and Galen Rupp.

The most ridiculous thing is when people believe that Bekele was dirty but the Salazar crew is clean.

And the equally ridiculous thing is that people believe the Salazar crew is dirty and Bekele is clean, or that anyone is dirty, or clean. I don't believe anyone other than myself, about anything.

he wont get tested.hes in the too big to fall catagory.

What's the problem? He was young and improving.

Coach G wrote:

What's the problem? He was young and improving.

If it is possible that any human could ever run a 5K in 12:37.35 clean…then the human would be Kenenisa Bekele.

I think Kenenisa Bekele is still...the greatest runner...of all time.

In my opinion Farah is much more suspicious than Bekele, because of the very late drop in his times, from age 26 to age 27 going from an also ran consistently running high 13:0x for years to suddenly very competitive at the top. Bekele made bigger year over year time drops, but as others noted this was at a young age when everybody around the world is making big improvements going from high school to college age. But even 18-19 Bekele was already nearly as fast as Farah in his mid 20s plateau of mediocrity.

Bekele:

2004 Age 22 12:37.35 Hengelo 31 MAY

2003 Age 21 12:52.26 Oslo 27 JUN

2002 Age 20 13:26.58 Milano 05 JUN (injury affected)

2001 Age 19 13:13.33 Sevilla 08 JUN

2000 Age 18 13:20.57 Rieti 03 SEP

Farah:

2011 Age 28 12:53.11 Monaco 22 JUL

2010 Age 27 12:57.94 Zurich 19 AUG

2009 Age 26 13:09.14 London 24 JUL

2008 Age 25 13:08.11 Bruxelles 05 SEP

2007 Age 24 13:07.00 Bruxelles 14 SEP

2006 Age 23 13:09.40 Heusden-Zolder 22 JUL

Prior years nothing faster than 13:30

Fat floats wrote:

In my opinion Farah is much more suspicious than Bekele, because of the very late drop in his times, from age 26 to age 27 going from an also ran consistently running high 13:0x for years to suddenly very competitive at the top. Bekele made bigger year over year time drops, but as others noted this was at a young age when everybody around the world is making big improvements going from high school to college age. But even 18-19 Bekele was already nearly as fast as Farah in his mid 20s plateau of mediocrity.

Bekele:

2004 Age 22 12:37.35 Hengelo 31 MAY

2003 Age 21 12:52.26 Oslo 27 JUN

2002 Age 20 13:26.58 Milano 05 JUN (injury affected)

Farah:

2011 Age 28 12:53.11 Monaco 22 JUL

2010 Age 27 12:57.94 Zurich 19 AUG

2009 Age 26 13:09.14 London 24 JUL

Both are dodgy

That is a weak excuse. Surely would-be cheaters can get the information they need without releasing any blood test data.Here are three better reasons not to release blood data to the public:1) It's private medical data2) High risk that public misinterpretation could irreparably damage reputations of innocent athletes3) Sets a dangerous precedent that tabloid journalism could be used as a tool for "fishing expeditions"

Roho wrote:

I am so disappointed that the heat on Radcliffe appears to be off now. Why can't people see that the excuse to not release data as it would aid cheaters is so weak and goes against previous statements. She holds a record that will never be beaten so this is important.

The athletes who recently released data didn't suffer any reputational damage.

i believe that Bekele did not dope at all.

the competitions he ran were not quite competitive but strategic.

tony the tiger wrote:

2004 12:37.35 Hengelo 31 MAY

2003 12:52.26 Oslo 27 JUN

2002 13:26.58 Milano 05 JUN

2001 13:13.33 Sevilla 08 JUN

2000 13:20.57 Rieti 03 SEP

Why not retest (using the new methods) all the samples of Los Angeles 1984, Seoul 1988, Barcelona 1992, Atlanta 1996, Sydney 2000? because everybody involved in track and field knows that 90% of the medalists were on drugs. What do you want? To prove that EVERY T&F star was doped back then? Carl Lewis, Seb Coe, Paula Radcliffe, Hicham El Guerrouj, Mo Greene, Yelena Isinbayeva, Daniel Komen, Haile G, etc?

So, you can only retest samples from 8 years ago (2008). And still that isn't enough.

Don Catlin explains this issue, better than anyone

"...What surprised you most when you first started to look into doping in sports?

It became very clear to me that the drugs are very powerful, and can remarkably change one’s position in sport. If the drugs didn’t work, we wouldn’t care, but they do work—they really do enhance performance.

Would you characterize it as rampant, and the public’s past perception as maybe somewhat naïve?

Yes. It was rampant when I started in the early ‘80s. Drugs were all over the place, and we had trouble testing for them. We did not have the kind of money that’s available today. The IOC sent emissaries to Los Angeles to find somebody who could do anti-doping [for the 1984 games]. They asked me if I’d develop a lab, and explained carefully that athletes, particularly in Europe, did not want to compete in America because there was no lab, and they felt that Americans were doping...

...with anabolic steroids, growth hormone, and erythropoietin, it’s deliberate. Today we still have problems with those drugs. We can cover all the versions of EPO [erythropoietin], but coverage is not that great. The issue is one of sensitivity: The common person believes if you have had a test and it was negative, then the person who submitted the sample was not using any banned drugs. Unfortunately, that’s far from the truth. People can get by using small doses and various tricks to avoid detection. The problems continue, but I would say they’re getting better..."

Ben L Wrong wrote:

It became very clear to me that the drugs are very powerful, and can remarkably change one’s position in sport. If the drugs didn’t work, we wouldn’t care, but they do work—they really do enhance performance.

No way. You have fuzzy fizziology. Every body works perfectly with the right warmup to reach maximum adrenaline levels.

TBTF ............................................to big to fail.

And

MICERA ..........................MICERA................................micera. (at very least )

=

k .bekele.

Anti-Doping is 90% window dressing and PR designed to maintain the image of a clean sport.

The anti-doping authorities are not engaged in any manhunt to track down and nail big-time dopers who have retired and remain undetected.

There are a few lone voices working in anti-doping genuinely interested in cleaning up the sport.But it is mainly controlled by the organizations for the interest of the business of the sport.

1.

if not for recent peptide igf-1 lr3

would consider the best ped that has excisted to date ........micera

micera/ cera was dissed out to select few , many years before

even approved for market . approx 2002

just like growth hormone found hands into carl lewis and sprinters around

california area before that californian company released properly

and issued in the next paradigm shift in sprints , before epo and sprints being the next with sprint endurance.

by itself hgh useless but if can combine with steroids then sprinters

started to find 1-2 meters extra in 100m

2.

king bekele ,

had the best third generation epo by far ,

at a time when all other athletes had to duck and dive on basic epo

and still could take hematocrit as high as nessary

a epo that guarantees a higher and more stable hematocrit even

in athletes that dont respond as well to other forms of epo

all in one injection a month , train in his pocket and not know taking

unlike daily or more first generation stuff.

was competing whenever ,wherever crosscountry etc , this stuff was good

how good well lets look at select few that know of that used

all through his manager ,

and who after summer 2008 ,when banned there careers were never the same ,the obvious few .

alan webb ... never should of ran those times ......

at the age he did and with style he had .

or

gebreselassie , was older and slowing down ,not anymore from 2002

or

jeremy wariner and sanya richards

or

shaheens record in 3000m steeple

or

craig mottram , yes without a doubt look at the size of guy .

or

3.

importantly

Ramzi , who was the only athlete burned by iaaf but on condition

keep quiet and could keep his world titles

all other athletes were warned to be off stuff afew months by summer 2008

so iaaf definitely invovled ,obviously...

and why no retro test for this stuff at time

given rubbish story that wasnt on market but ramzi still destroyed field

at 2007 worlds

so wouldnt test it as TBTF athletes like bekele gone but

as know now, with iaaf/wada all this doesnt matter ,

can cover up whatever want regardless.

how can you compete with athlete on this stuff

no need for pacers .............

Moorcroft never ran under 13:00.

Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:

kikKomen Soi sauce wrote:

Fixed.

Thank you. ABOUT time someone pointed the finger at MOORCROFT!

What makes anyone think that samples from 2003 or earlier still exist? The storage period is typically 8 years. And with our current anti-doping system, you can be sure that no samples will be kept a day longer. Paula & Kenenisa are completely safe.