Olympic 1500 final. who should have gone to the front.

I think Kiprop lost the race when he made that move to the front 700m that he failed to finish and allowed himself to be swallowed up. I think his best chance would've been to wait a bit longer and make that move 2 laps and put himself right at Centro's shoulder. By the time he was able to make his second attempt towards the front, as they approached the bell, the other athletes were beginning to freak out in the windup for the final sprint and he had a hard time getting position.

If he had got himself up near the front just a little earlier he could've stayed right on Centro as the pace accelerated and could've held off any other attempts by other runners to get in front. Then he would've had enough in his legs to outkick Centro in the final 100.

Centro didn't show us anything really. The others allowed him to be all comfortable and cozy, that's all. They should have tried to mess up his plan. Just go see the indoor world 1500m this year, Willis messed Souleiman's plan and Centro took advantage of that.

Centro's opponents were more dumb than he was smart (I don't know if that sentence is correct but you get my point). Their fault still.

Makh would not have won if he went from 800 out because that would have set Kiprop up perfectly.

And vice versa

Well maybe Kiprop could have won that way but he was too scared of Makh to try it.

The problem was that there were two champions in the race that didn't want to be the rabbit for the other one.

Silver lining: That is the last major championship race that will be run that slow. The big boys won't ever allow it again.

Bad Wigins wrote:

The only conceivable reason why he didn't was he was pressured to throw the race. ....

The sad truth is most top elites have hot samples from way back that can be unfrozen and tested if they don't do exactly as they're told. Wasn't the IAAF exposed as having reams of suspect BP data that it never acted on? Didn't Diack extort money to cover up positives? Totally crooked.

Oh, gaawwd. Wigins, you've either completely lost it (after a year of Bernin' your brain on Sanders nonsense), or are now a very redundant troll: with you EVERYthing is "rigged", or "fixed" or a "conspiracy" and EVERYone is "corrupt" or "cheating." Every damn person or thing on this planet.

For crissakes, Kiprop ran an incredibly inefficient race, made too many moves that amounted to nothing, got bounced around like a ping pong ball, and isn't necessarily the fastest pure sprinter in the field, so is always vulnerable in a race like that.

To answer OP question, yes, he should have gone earlier. And so should have anyone who doesn't feel 100% sure that a slow race with a final 400 sprint is in their best interest/is completely their type of race to excel at.

Matt should have gone to the front and he did.

Matt played the hand he was dealt. No one wanted to pass him early on and speed things up. Tough luck. They all knew how good he was over the last 100 in most championship races.

People can talk about how lucky Centro was but he won. He beat a great field and the slow pace kept the doped Kenyans from having an advantage. Kiprop ran in his normal arrogant fashion.

The LR posters are jealous of Centro just as they have showed their jealousy of Rupp over the years. Centro has gold, Rupp has a silver and a bronze. Kudos to both of them.

Shudda, wudda,cudda. What the hell does it matter now? The race was run and won by the person who ran the best race.

A pig with wings.

Rockstar Games wrote:

Centro's opponents were more dumb than he was smart...

Maybe the best comparison for Centrowitz is the politician George Washington Plunkitt, whose motto was: "I seen my opportunities, and I took 'em."

Seeing your opportunities takes smarts. You have to figure out what other people are doing, and your best response to them. Taking your opportunities requires nerve. You have to be willing to act on what you see, even though you might fail.

In other words: Brains + Balls = Success.

Rockstar Games wrote:

Centro didn't show us anything really. The others allowed him to be all comfortable and cozy, that's all. They should have tried to mess up his plan. Just go see the indoor world 1500m this year, Willis messed Souleiman's plan and Centro took advantage of that.

Centro's opponents were more dumb than he was smart (I don't know if that sentence is correct but you get my point). Their fault still.

What a total crock, man. Centro ran an incredible race.

So, if someone wins partly through good tactics, then they just got lucky? And let me guess: if someone relies on fitness and wins with questionable tactics, that person is an idiot and was lucky no one else had a little more fitness?

Total hater garbage, but you're probably just a troll.

Anyway, as was pointed out, Kiprop is used to winning from the rear and even so tried to get into better position but failed. It's true that the 800 is different from a kick but I'm sure Makh was super confident in his kick as a 1:42 Olympic silver medalist and understandably so.

It's worth noting that Makhloufi was closing in Centro the last fifty and ran out of real estate. Oh well!

I don't see what anyone else clearly should have done differently other than Kiprop not wasting so much energy.

The fact is, the race went out slow and Centro made the best of it more than anyone else. I would have picked Centro to medal at any pace - it's not like he's some fluke guy who was expected to get last. He was expected to medal. And he had the best tactics, superb fitness (heck, with Kiprop seeming off and Makhloufi not PRing in the 1500 in a while, it wouldn't surprise me if Centro popped a fast one and finished the year as the world leader), and he freaking held off Kiprop AND Makhloufi, both of whom got on his shoulder in the last 200, with a 50.x.

Doesn't really get any better. Legendary.

Totally agreed. Centro showed us that he knows both HOW to control a race and HOW to execute that to win. Sure, maybe his prime opponents were "more dumb" than they should've been, but that's they're own bad tactics, not necessarily just poor judgement.

My guess is that as the race unfolded and certain players expected something else to happen, they individually decided to hold back and wait. Centro stepped up and kept the lead, and then outkicked all the "faster" guys.

Plans, tactics, dumb/smart, faster PR's... all don't matter when the results are posted and someone has won. Centro showed us he could put it all together on Saturday and WIN.

Each of the three medal winners could have done this. "I believe if Kiprop had hit the bell at a modest 2:45, he still could have closed in 51.0 ran 3:36 to win."

Kiprop doing it would have given him 2 advantages.

#1 One of the medal winners would have been stuck on the inside of the second row (or way outside) leaving them without a good path to the finish.

#2 The medal winners would have been listening for Kiprop's tune rather than playing their own. Kiprop wouldn't just be leading, he would be where everyone expected him to finish.

Having seen Kiprop's other races where he goes ridiculously slow and then accelerates dramatically for the win, or where he gaps the field and then lets them come back, only to pull away again... I honestly think he wanted to show off.

I think he thought he was so good that he could do whatever he wanted and still win gold, and he thought that people would think it was very impressive if he "toyed with the field" as he has done before.

Well, you play stupid games...and you win stupid prizes. Great race from Centro. Dumb, dumb, dumb race from Kiprop.

You can have that point of view. That's fine. But if people have that point of view than why do we never hear any criticism that they even make bronze and silver medals? Why did Prefontaine of all people say 4th place was the worst place to finish?

mark b wrote:

I thought the general idea was to win the race. Does anyone go into the race aiming at second or third?

You also want to look back on a race satisfied that you left everything out there, that you did everything possible in an attempt to win that race. My point is that the majority of runners in that race cannot possibly have that feeling of satisfaction.

mark b wrote:

I thought the general idea was to win the race. Does anyone go into the race aiming at second or third?

You also want to look back on a race satisfied that you left everything out there, that you did everything possible in an attempt to win that race. My point is that the majority of runners in that race cannot possibly have that feeling of satisfaction.

Did you see the interview with Centro afterwards?

He said he was aiming for second or third.

He really didn't visualize winning except for in a fantasy.

He was practical with his expectations.

But he still won.

Boy do I see that you love to talk...

What in my post implies that I'm a hater and a troll? I'm not hating on no one, but you're too much of a fan boy.

Would you call it a perfect tactic if Kiprop would be the one who led of a 2:45 km pace and won? Of course not, you would say it was an unecessary risk when he could have led of a faster pace.

The truth is that the 6 guys with faster pr's than Centro did nothing to win the race. If dumbness and smartness were quantifiable, then their dumbness was clearly superior to Centro's tactics capiche?