LetsRun slammed via FiveThirtyEight

My 1st post had a screwed up format. I'm reposting it.1) We're not even mentioned in the article.2) The article had one glaring mistake. It was embarrassing she tried to make this racial. She wrote, " It’s notable that the women who’ve made the news for being scrutinized under the testosterone rule have been people of color."No ti's not notable. A very high percentage of the people with condition are result of having children to people related to you. Incest doesn't normally happen in the developed world3)I also think this argument is laughable

543 wrote:

" I know Semenya is a woman because people are trying to control her body.”

Women with high testosterone levels have been pressured to undergo life-changing surgery and medical interventions in exchange for the right to compete.

Taking the second part of that, I'd responde by saying Semenya has always had the right to compete without the treatment - she just doesn't have the right to compete in the category for we call women's athletics. If we are going to have a create a category of sports called women's sports - because of the fact if we had an open category like we do for everything else in life like jobs, political seats, etc. women wouldn't be able to compete - then a definition has to be made as to what type of human qualifies to compete in the slower category. Saying someone who is XY chromosonally and has internal testicles can't compete isn't unreasonable.

As for the ridiculous argument that anyone tries to control someone's body, it means they are dealing with a wome, I'd say this. Men's bodies in sports are controlled all the time. IF men want to compete in men's athletics, they are told they can't smoke cannabis, do cocaine or steroids. They are also told they must tell the authorities where they'll be for 1 hour of every single day. They also must agree to let complete strangers look at their penis when they are drug tested.

rojo wrote: No ti's not notable. A very high percentage of the people with condition are result of having children to people related to you.

I read the first few posts of this thread and I honestly could not understand what the hell the posters were talking about. Something about Semenya.

Whenever someone complains about SJWs I just assume it's someone with the maturity of a 12-year-old and then things start to make more sense.

Grow up, people.

The key with these intertwined social/athletic issues is in order to decide them society needs an impartial jury. Katie Matlack & Christine Aschwanden are certainly allowed to make their case, but their articles clearly suggest through their own personal experiences that they are to be eliminated thru society's voir dire. Tucker & the Brojos are equally to be eliminated from the other side. You must bring in societal jurors who come at this issue with a clean slate (as is done in courtrooms throughout the US & elsewhere), explain the science & performance as if you're explaining forensic evidence to 12 non-scientists, and then let society's jury find the middle ground. You cannot let the prosecutors & defense teams be a part of the jury.

This is a very difficult argument. Of course there are many factors that make someone a great runner. I'm sure I had more testosterone in my system than Melissa, yet she has a faster PB than me (and 98% of all male runners) at 800m. The top females in the world run at about the same level as average to pretty good male high school runners. There must be a reason for that.

We have to look at averages and in doing that, we assume that testosterone levels are a big part of what make top male runners faster than top female runners. I can see it being quite difficult to prove what causes this difference - especially when Olympic calibre women are faster than the average male.

The Olympics and world class sports are not about fairness for all. There is a myth that anyone could be an Olympic champion if they work hard enough. This is not true. Talent is a huge factor. In fact the extra talented person has to be able to work very hard to be an Olympic champion. Most people have no chance at all to beat Bolt, Farah, Bishop, or Thompson.

We have developed women's and men's categories largely because of this difference between men and women. It is an opportunity to have interesting races between women in this category who have physiological similarities, but physiological differences with men. It will not be interesting, and will therefore be damaging to women if we start compromising the definition of the women's category. The amount of testosterone allowed in a female may be that defining element if they can prove it to be so.

Unfortunately, this will place all women in another difficult position in having to prove that their level of testosterone falls into the required range.

Is it just me or have the liberal media become more and more explicit in their bias?

You've read the NYTimes article on this, I presume?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/20/sports/caster-semenya-800-meters.html?_r=0

Back in 2008, I think the NYTimes article would have simply asked the question of the audience, and cited reputable sources arguing both sides. Here, they focus on Kartzakis - however it's spelled - and briefly mention some random dude named "Villain" who thinks Semenya might have an advantage.

Phil Fondacaro wrote:

rojo wrote: No ti's not notable. A very high percentage of the people with condition are result of having children to people related to you.

While may be obviously true to you that inbreeding results in a higher percentage of intersex children, it is likely false and unproven. Citation please.

Rojo told me they don't allow racist comments on this site, so I'm sure he wouldn't just make up that "fact" about people of color...

1. It's not a difficult position. If a limit is set, then you are either within it or exceeding it.

2. Let's be honest, it is a courtesy that women's sports are broadcast at the same time as men's. The World Cup works much better with alternating Male/Female.

Imagine if the World Cup schedule was:

Men's championship match 1st half

Women's championship match 1st half

Men's championship match 2nd half

Women's championship match 2nd half

That is basically how it exists in track. It benefits no one to have a women's race won in a time that wouldn't win the North Carolina Division 2, Section 11 League Meet Championship right after seeing guys run sub-1:44 and not medaling.

I doubt she has any real advantage, otherwise CAS would have ruled different. IAAF had no proof that she had an unfair advantage.

It's sad that people don't like her just because she doesn't fit their mold of a pretty girl.

We ought to be tolerant and treat everyone with the dignity and respect that a human being deserves.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Phil Fondacaro wrote:

While may be obviously true to you that inbreeding results in a higher percentage of intersex children, it is likely false and unproven. Citation please.

Rojo told me they don't allow racist comments on this site, so I'm sure he wouldn't just make up that "fact" about people of color...

What color are you referring too?, I don't see any mention of color in the Rojo quote you've posted. Aren't you the one being racist referring to color?, that is if referring to color is racist, is color a race?

Justice4caster wrote:

I doubt she has any real advantage, otherwise CAS would have ruled different. IAAF had no proof that she had an unfair advantage.

It's sad that people don't like her just because she doesn't fit their mold of a pretty girl.

We ought to be tolerant and treat everyone with the dignity and respect that a human being deserves.

The CAS threw out the conviction but granted a new trial in 2 years time. They basically said 'Go make a better case.' That is not CAS having some sort of final ruling that no advantage is gained.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Phil Fondacaro wrote:

While may be obviously true to you that inbreeding results in a higher percentage of intersex children, it is likely false and unproven. Citation please.

Rojo told me they don't allow racist comments on this site, so I'm sure he wouldn't just make up that "fact" about people of color...

I've reported Mr. Obvious for making a racist comment and lying.

Lenny Leonard wrote:

Perhaps the most uncomfortable truth that this controversy forces us to confront is that there’s no such thing as a level playing field in sport. As much as we like the idea of athletes winning through hard work, guts and spirit, the fact is, much of it comes down to born talent. Most competitors never had a chance.

Paraphrase: to all you women who are butthurt about having to race Semenya: stop kidding yourself with 'hard work, guts and spirit.' You just aren't good enough to compete. Sorry ¯_(ツ)_/¯.

Essentially, the SJW who made that argument is saying that the entire population of women who are biologically women should accept having to compete against women who are biologically men--and that those women who are biologically women just need to "suck it up" and realize they'll never be as good.

I would argue that it's SEMENYA who needs to come to the realization that she has a limitation that will never make her as good as those against whom she should be competing--OTHER MEN.

But for some illogical reason, for all of their liberalism, SJWs have no problem throwing women under the bus. They are glad to open floodgates that will inevitably lead to women being unable to compete in their own sports.

I wonder what Katharine Switzer thinks about this--someone who, less than fifty years ago, got physically shoved off the Boston Marathon course because she wasn't a man. It's happening again, folks--and ironically, this time, it's young "liberals" who are doing the shoving.

There's so much wrong with all of this, I can't even get my head around it.

She wrote, " It’s notable that the women who’ve made the news for being scrutinized under the testosterone rule have been people of color."

Unless Rojo's joined the transgender set and become a "She" then he wasn't responsible for the quote and raising the word color, he just quoted the quote.

Mr. Obvious here's a little exercise for you:

Press 'Ctrl F', at: 'Find:' type in 'racist' and see who was the first person to raise the word 'racist' and introduce racism.

Press 'Ctrl F' wrote:

Mr. Obvious here's a little exercise for you:

Press 'Ctrl F', at: 'Find:' type in 'racist' and see who was the first person to raise the word 'racist' and introduce racism.

...on this thread.

Whoever keeps starting these threads, your desperate screams for attention among the Letsrun crowd will have very little inroads. You are wasting your time.

rojo wrote:

I loved the first comment in the comment box:

John Smith wrote:

"But it’s hard not to see sexism in the answers that the IAAF is providing." The very concept of dividing contests by gender is itself sexist. Your enlightened view logically means the end of female only events and it's crazy you're refusing to accept that, delusionally insisting you can somehow have a fair option. You have to draw the line somewhere. You don't want to draw a line at all, so all males can compete as female. If you do want to draw the line anywhere at all, there will be some people unfairly caught in the grey area on the wrong side of the line. This article is extremely biased and is unfit to be on 538.

1. I'm glad you found the term SJW to describe people with common decency. "PC" was getting tired.

2. I think there may be a few non-SJW scientists who take issue with the idea that black people after inbred and white people aren't because white people come from developed nations.

I disagree. I'm just as fired up to watch women's events as I am men's events. Unless there is a woman with too much testosterone in one of the races.

1. I'm glad you found the term SJW to describe people with common decency. "PC" was getting tired.

2. I think there may be a few non-SJW scientists who take issue with the idea that black people are inbred and white people aren't because white people come from developed nations.[/quote]