What is the "vertical" of world class high jumpers?

dddddddddddddddddd wrote:

I'm glad to see some discussion on the topic but can anybody provide any actual calculations? I have little to know knowledge of the tests used or the CG in flight.

Here is a very rough guess on my part:

Assume a 75" tall bb player has a CG at 57% of his height, or 43". If he has a vertical of 40", then his CG at the apex is 83".

Let's say the world class jumper of a same size can clear 90", meaning the CG passes 98" at apex. The difference between this height and the jumper's natural CG is 55".

Is this his vertical? Or am I completely off base?

I might be able to help a little. In the NBA they measure vertical in two ways so when you hear "x player has a 40" vertical" you are hearing their "max vertical". A max vertical is a vertical w a few running steps before the jump. A no step vert is just jumping straight up. I don't know of any no step verts above 39.5" which was Nick Young. However, many of the best leapers have no step certs that are 32-25". The highest recent max vert I can think of is Zach Lavine at 46". Wiggins is 44" and Jordan was just shy of 46".

Do you know if the vertical correlates directly with the height of their CG standing and during flight? Or is there some sort of fudge factor associated with the measurement of their arms outstreched? I don't know if that makes any sense.

Well according to her coach he wouldn't even have her attempt 18" box training.

So even a knee tucked to 39" box is unlikely.

Approx 12:40 into the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmWnX8D2RF4

Finally someone talking some sense about vertical jumping. I'm done playing basketball but when I was in my 20's and playing my standing vertical jump was measured at 37 inches. I'm 6ft tall and could dunk a basketball with 2 hands from standing with not even a drop step. I played basketball my entire life and only ever met one other guy who could do that at 6ft tall. If there really are a bunch of guys with standing verticals over 40 inches they live in seclusion somewhere because I have never seen them. There are some pretty fantastical numbers out there floating around on the internet about vertical jumping and I would be surprised to learn that any of them are true.

I think the closest comparison with high jump scores and bb verticals is with a running start, so the standing vertical is not really relevant, right?

There has to be some instance of a high jumper completing the same test used in bb verticals...

I would surmise that high jumpers (they should actually be called leapers) would have less impressive standing vertical jumps than professional football, basketball and volleyball players. You have to remember that in the high jump they are jumping off of ONE foot which relies more on the elastic property of muscle tendons to produce power than the standing vertical which relies more on the muscles themselves to generate power.

I would agree because they do not train with standing jump.

Oddly, I jump higher off of one foot than I do both feet when running. Some of my friends are opposite. I've noticed that NBA players vary in their takeoff.

I guess I am wondering what the "max" vertical with a running start that Jakir mentioned is for high jumpers, assuming that the bb vertical data disseminated is also for a running start.

Regardless, I found an antecdote.

Jonathan Clark, a formal T&F athlete at UCLA, has a Outdoor HJ of 6-10.75

http://dunkademics.com/2014/03/height-checks-getting-your-head-above-the-rim/

http://www.uclabruins.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=737

Incidentally, he is 75" tall like in my example.

He can almost get his entire head above a rim. So he can get the top of his head approx 125" off the ground.

So 125" - 75" is a total of 52". That sounds insane for a max vertical, right?

If world class jumpers can clear a full foot higher on the high jump, then somebody his height could have a vertical of 64" based on these calculations . . . this doesn't seem possible. Ideas?

D-Nice wrote:

I'd also like to know what the vertical is for indoor volleyball players at the Olympics. Those guys are amazing athletes and all the middles and outsides could easily dunk a basketball and must have significant verticals. One of my favorite don't-get-to-see-much sports.

I went to visit a friend who was coaching at Penn State. We (me, my buddy, and Harry Groves) walked through Rec Hall while the men's volleyball team was doing drills and conditioning. My jaw hit the floor to see the jumping ability of these 6'8" guys off of a hardwood floor! Groves looked at me and stated flat out that he wouldn't ask a world class high/long/triple jumper to even try some of the jumping drills the VB guys were doing easily.

Those VB guys are truly amazing leapers.

Vertical jump and high jumping are different things, basically apples and oranges.

High jump is all about getting CG, cleanly over the bar.

Seems like a few folks are missing the difference.

Now this is "vertical"

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/1/20/10799396/stefan-holm-high-jump-hurdles-sweden-39-year-old-jumping-vertical-60-inches

angry willy wrote:

Vertical jump and high jumping are different things, basically apples and oranges.

High jump is all about getting CG, cleanly over the bar.

Seems like a few folks are missing the difference.

Multiple posts that seem to be forgetting that an elite HJers CG passes underneath of the bar in a HJ clearance.

Also, keep in mind that a standing vertical is different than a double leg jump with a few steps into it, which in turn is different than a running single leg jump (LJ, HJ, TJ, layup).

Most people are better at the double leg jump or the single leg jump. Not many people are equal at both. But usually if you are really good at one, you will be at least decent at the other.

That is why you said a fair bit of overlap between good high jump ability and athletic basketball players. But ultimately, basketball as a sport rewards much more than just jumping ability, so it is only loosely correlated, there are some NBA players who can barely dunk, but they're good at the other skills.

Instead of saying CG I should have said something else . . . this is helpful though.

Those numbers can get skewed too because lots of guys who have killer verts aren't really two footed jumpers (I would guess you are but i dunno). So many one footed jumpers underperform in a standing vert test. I assume that Barkley's was really high. I think his max vert was measured over 40" when he was fat as shit. Dominique was another two footed leaper. Anyway, yes, your vert is/was totally insane. Another thing is that in basketball, you can have only a 35" vert but be a very explosive leaper and have very long arms and that will help make up for some of the height missing from your vert. Westbrook is like this. He's 6' 3.5" with a 6"7.75" wingspan and a 36.5" vert. In addition, a vert test is just a test and while someone like Blake Griffin may have measured only 35" in a vert test, his could be higher. It's not like they test this every day and gear up for it as if they were running a time trial.

The more important question in the NBA is the height of your "second jump" ... how high you can jump immediately after coming down from a jump

dddddddddddddddddd wrote:

We all hear that NBA player have outrageous "verticals" of 40 or even 50+ inches.

If the best high jumpers in the world were to perform the same test, what would be the results?

Very few are over 40 inches.

A properly done vertical jump test involves a standing start (no run up) and one continuous motion (no swinging the arms back and forth and priming the legs) down and then up.

I tested the men's VB team in the late 90s. Lots of folks in the 34-40 inch range. Taller guys (6-8 and over) tended to be at the lower end of the spectrum. Very long arms!

those mens volleyball players have some hops

dddddddddddddddddd wrote:

Regardless, I found an antecdote.

Jonathan Clark, a formal T&F athlete at UCLA, has a Outdoor HJ of 6-10.75

http://dunkademics.com/2014/03/height-checks-getting-your-head-above-the-rim/http://www.uclabruins.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=737

Incidentally, he is 75" tall like in my example.

He can almost get his entire head above a rim. So he can get the top of his head approx 125" off the ground.

So 125" - 75" is a total of 52". That sounds insane for a max vertical, right?

If world class jumpers can clear a full foot higher on the high jump, then somebody his height could have a vertical of 64" based on these calculations . . . this doesn't seem possible. Ideas?

Their heads are not entirely above the rim. Their heads are tilted and the camera angle is looking upwards. So subtract 3-12 inches from your calculations for vertical jumping. Most of the guys are in the 40s. Few if not none are over 50 in that link.

PoisonIvy wrote:

Actually, when the USOC still supported track & field, a study was done to examine the physical abilities of a variety of athletes across all event groups. Believe it or not, the most explosive/powerful athletes (as tested by vertical displacement of COM) were the throwers.

I believe that, easily.

I remember being at the Ivy League indoor track meet a few years back. As the athletes were called for their awards, most of the winners (including the high jump champ) climbed up on the lower blocks, to get to the top of the stand.

The only athlete who simply jumped to the top: the shot put champ. The weight throw champ also jumped up there, but used his hands a bit, as well.

Decent "ups" here, too:

dddddddddddddddddd wrote:

I'm glad to see some discussion on the topic but can anybody provide any actual calculations? I have little to know knowledge of the tests used or the CG in flight.

Here is a very rough guess on my part:

Assume a 75" tall bb player has a CG at 57% of his height, or 43". If he has a vertical of 40", then his CG at the apex is 83".

Let's say the world class jumper of a same size can clear 90", meaning the CG passes 98" at apex. The difference between this height and the jumper's natural CG is 55".

Is this his vertical? Or am I completely off base?

I don't think it works like that, but I'm also purely speculating. There's a lot of technique in the hj, sort of a flip. The gymnasts get their cg dang high on the floor routine doing flips even without a springy floor, but they don't have 40+ inch vertical leaps. If the hj athletes were jumping 55 inches straight up, they'd have their shoulders at a basketball rim. No way that's happening.