Any medalist in any track event is better than Phelps.
Swimming is a joke, much like golf.
Any medalist in any track event is better than Phelps.
Swimming is a joke, much like golf.
You mean, what T&F athlete from a high-income country consistently dominates all of the other athletes from high-income countries? That is basically what we're talking about here. I recognize that there are a non-zero number of swimmers in mid- and lower-income countries, but worldwide participation in swimming is not even within a large multiple of what it is in athletics. Hell, subtract out T&F athletes from all of the countries where the average citizen does not have convenient access to a swimming pool, and guys like Rupp and Centro are almost equally dominant.
Nurmi?
No question, Edwin Moses. Most dominant hurdler, ever.
Mr. Obvious wrote:
Leonidas
Leonidas of Rhodes should be the end of the conversation.
Michael Phelps is the most dominant Olympic athlete ever. No one is close. He's the only person with double digit gold medals and he has 22. He has won 3 golds so far in his 5th games.
Stan Van G wrote:
Michael Phelps is the most dominant Olympic athlete ever. No one is close. He's the only person with double digit gold medals and he has 22. He has won 3 golds so far in his 5th games.
I am a track guy. But if you look at how many more people compete and strive to compete in track, Bolt is FAR superior to Phelps in achievement. You cannot take away what he has done, but athletically speaking he is no where near Bolt.
Phelps's longevity is impressive in comparison to any top athlete in any sport. Being the best in the world in four straight Olympics is a rare feat to say the least. He's also pretty clearly the best swimmer ever.
Anyone who thinks his medal tally is grounds for ranking his achievements above the best achievements in other sports needs their head examined. Swimming compared to track is a shallower talent pool, there are fewer true single-event specialists, and the gap between specialists and multi-eventers is much narrower.
At least two swimmers have won at least four medals each in every Olympics since 1972 except for the boycott years. In London six different swimmers each won four or more medals. In athletics this has happened once ever (Flying Finns).
ironside wrote:
Historically, Carl Lewis. 1980, Carl Lewis was more of a Long Jump specialist. We can be nearly 100% certain that Lewis would have won GOLD, LJ, 1980 Olympics. That would have been five Olympic LJ gold for Lewis.
When the winner has jumped 41cm further than Lewis' PB?
People can disagree, but Lance Armstrong has got to be up there.
Olympic Truth wrote:
Stan Van G wrote:Michael Phelps is the most dominant Olympic athlete ever. No one is close. He's the only person with double digit gold medals and he has 22. He has won 3 golds so far in his 5th games.
I am a track guy. But if you look at how many more people compete and strive to compete in track, Bolt is FAR superior to Phelps in achievement. You cannot take away what he has done, but athletically speaking he is no where near Bolt.
As an olympian, no one compares to Phelps and no one probably ever will. He has been the best person in his sport for 16 years, that is incredible. He might even keep going in Japan, other swimmers have come and gone. In terms of comparable athletes, there's probably a lot of people. Usain Bolt and Serena Williams come to mind. More or less I think you have to look at the "GOAT" of every sport. There's others in sports I'm not familiar with I'm sure. My main point was differentiating between olympic success and overall success.
In my opinion, the medal count is irrelevant. If you look at the variety of swim events, Phelps has a core competency that enables him to succeed at multiple swim events concentrated around sprint distances. He's a good freestyle sprinter and butterfly sprinter. Since there are 50, 100, 200, and three relays spanning those distances, someone good (like Phelps) and on a good team (like USA) would inevitably have more medal opportunities than someone who is just a freestyle swimmer or just a butterfly sprinter. His talent is multiple skills over multiple distances.In Athletics then, to find the closest person, I think we're looking for an athlete that can span a few distances (similar to Phelps spanning 50m to 200m) and with multiple skills (similar to freestyle and butterfly). Swimming events are probably more overlapping than track and field -- that's three distances for Phelps (50, 100, 200). On the track, rarely would you find someone do three distances but the best example I can think of is someone like Felix who has some talent at 100m, 200m, 400m, and relays. But we also need someone who can span multiple distances *and* skillsets. To find someone like that, I think we'd need to find a 100/200/400 runner that could LJ/TJ or maybe hurdle. Something where many of the core capability is shared yet with a distinctive technique aspect. Plenty of sprinters combine jumping and running, but not over so many distances. And there are some hurdlers who do flat races, but rarely would you find a 110HH/400H person.I think this all points to the conclusion that there isn't someone in Athletics like Phelps. But I don't think this is because he is so great, I think it is because the concentration of swim events is so dense. Take away the one of the distances and maybe a relay from swimming and they are more comparable. Or add a medley relay on the track, maybe a 300m race, or better yet, a 50m sprint and I think we could find a sprinter (maybe like a Carl Lewis) good at the 50m/100m, LJ/TJ, and 4x100 relay that excels at all their events.
22 and counting wrote:
Decathlon doesn't count because they only compete against other decathletes. Phelps competes against event specialists, not just other 200 flyers.
Stan Van G wrote:
Olympic Truth wrote:I am a track guy. But if you look at how many more people compete and strive to compete in track, Bolt is FAR superior to Phelps in achievement. You cannot take away what he has done, but athletically speaking he is no where near Bolt.
As an olympian, no one compares to Phelps and no one probably ever will. He has been the best person in his sport for 16 years, that is incredible. He might even keep going in Japan, other swimmers have come and gone. In terms of comparable athletes, there's probably a lot of people. Usain Bolt and Serena Williams come to mind. More or less I think you have to look at the "GOAT" of every sport. There's others in sports I'm not familiar with I'm sure. My main point was differentiating between olympic success and overall success.
You are aware of the bong smoking and DUIs, plural. He did a good job of using drugs PED and narc. and winning and then moving the sport forward based on marketing by USA swimming, but don't confuse THE person with THE athlete. He is a decent person that made mistakes, but fell very short in being an example for his sport.
Where did that come from? You must have missed the segment ESPN did on him where he realized he hit rock bottom and worked to change. The past is the past. Look where he's at now.
Stan Van G wrote:
Where did that come from? You must have missed the segment ESPN did on him where he realized he hit rock bottom and worked to change. The past is the past. Look where he's at now.
So does that erase what he did? My point is good job on changing, but there are many athletes that did not need to hit bottom do become a better person.
He is still a work in process, but his mistakes take away from what he did for the sport.
So do you forgive all the other wrong doers? As long as ESPN does a segment.
Remember the man is 31 years old!
Ledicky is ahead of where Phelps was at this point of his career.
No one has broken world records to the extreme of Ledicky. Ledicky has destroyed competitors to a level that Bolts can't touch.
Devil Dog wrote:
Car Lewis. 9 Golds.
over 2 different events really. I say 2 because the 100 and 200 are not all that different whereas the long jump is.
If the Olympics were like HS meets where you had lots of relays like 4x200 Carl would likely have picked up more medals.
sbeefyk1 wrote:
So your question is who is the most unathletic athletics athlete? I have no idea. Even the worst is still more athletic than Phelps. Maybe if track had no arms and no legs competitors Phelps would be on par with that person in terms of athleticism.
Let me get this straight, you are comparing a person who runs and really just uses his legs to an athlete who uses his entire body? And you call swimmers less athletic?
I know, right?