What's more impressive, Bolt winning 3rd Olympic gold in the 100 & 200, or him also getting the 400 WR?

I appreciate your opinion, and accept that Bolt may have been able to be good at the 400m had he trained for it. I accept this notion, albeit with less sarcasm than you.

On the race:

Firstly the trackside clock is straight up wrong. The winner is outside 3:05 you can time it yourself. On Bolt's All Athletics profile it gives his team's time as 3:05.77 and they were about 0.2s behind the winner.

The time of '43.58' is completely unverified and I doubt this meet had electronic splits for each runner, and even electronic splits can be a bit dubious at times.

As for Bolt's split, I doubt 43.6 is accurate at all. I will detail my reasoning as briefly as I can below.

The runner who Bolt never caught ran a 46.4. If we assume Bolt started at the same time as this runner (he didn't) then Bolt crosses the line at 46.9. That makes him 0.5s behind at the finish.

We cannot see exactly when Bolt crosses the 400m mark from the video but we can see when the runners pass a camera tripod around 25m from the start line.

Bolt is 2.7s behind at this point.

Of course, we miss the first 25m so we cannot say exactly how much time Bolt has made up in that period. What we can say is it is not the ~0.65s required to make Bolt's 43.58 a possibility.

For one, it takes Bolt the remaining 385m of the race, when he is at his full running, to makeup 2.2s on the leader. There is no way he made up 0.65s in the first 25m. I don't need to do the maths.

Secondly, just for fun anyway, the leader passed the tripod in 2.8s. That means the leader is running at about 45 flat pace up to that point (makes perfect sense). Were Bolt to cover the first 25m in under 2.2s then he would be running at 34 second pace for 400m. Bit unlikely.

It is more reasonable to say that Bolt made up under 2.4s across the whole race. So Bolt's real split was a very low 44, likely 44.1 but could be as slow as ~44.2

That is a mighty fine run, he makes up 20 metres over 400m, which is huge. It is not 43.5 however.

Now a low 44 relay split, with a rolling start, for a 45 low guy is not out of this world. I'm sure you see that in the NCAA even.

I am sure Bolt could run a low 44 with some training, like I said. It falls perfectly in line with his other times from 100-300. His 300m is dramatically slower than his 200m when compared to MJ. That sets him up much worse for the 400m.

Also let's not forget how little the gains over 400m are at the very highest level. It took MJ 9 years to improve from 44.2 to 43.2.

I think there are others on the circuit right now that would beat Bolt regularly were he to have moved up. And I think Van Niekerk has a much better shot at the WR than Bolt ever has.

I recall that Bolt'should 300 PR was done under rainy (far from perfect) conditions. He could have got it under the right conditions.

Some of you have pointed out that Bolt's 200 WR was much more impressive than his 300 PR. I don't disagree but let's also consider the fact that he seldom raced the 300, and probably did not train specifically for it. Also he had poor weather conditions during his 300 PR. (The track was wet as it had rained ) I think with a bit more focus on this distance and better conditions, he could have easily gotten the 300 record. Which takes me to the next question.... Could he (or anyone) ever go sub 30 seconds for 300?

Cogito wrote:

Bolt's built more for the 100/200, so it is easier for him to train for the 100/200. He'd have to do a lot more work and be willing to endure the pain to develop his speed endurance for the 400.

I am sorry but he is built more for the 400. That's why they were pushing him towards the 400 when he showed 200m talent.

That 200m speed and his tall thin frame should lead to great 400m times with the right training.

His 100m WR in early 2008 came as a big surprise.

I don't know if he would have to do more work but different work.

Sprinters do a lot of work to hone their speed and explosiveness out of the blocks.

I personally think it's easier to do some fast, painful 200m and 300m repeats than it is to work on uncoiling your body at the line to get to full speed in 30m out of blocks.

I don't think winning a third Olympic 100m is anywhere close to being easy.

Forget the 400 record for a minute.

What if he "just" won a 400m Olympic Gold to ad to his 100m and 200m Golds?

I'd be quite impressed with that.

I do think he could have done it.

But he 100 has more prestige so it doesn't make sense unless he could no longer win the 100.

I suspect that money is also a key factor in his decision to focus on the 100 and 200 Gold rather than give the 400 a real try. I also remember him talking about giving the long jump a try. That made no sense whatsoever. Lewis could do it because he started out as a jumper. It probably doesn't work the other way around.

If he got the 400m WR he would be in my top 3 Jamaican sprinters of all time

Didn't he split 43 ish a few times in some domestic 4x4s?

PrZ wrote:

Didn't he split 43 ish a few times in some domestic 4x4s?

I've not seen any evidence of a 43 relay split. Only legend.

This vs. That wrote:

The WRs are an absolute measure.

Not anymore, what with all the bouncy tracks, and strategic architecture to put the wind gauge in a dead spot.

As the 100 is the most competitive event at the Olympics, winning 3 in a row trumps everything.

The 400m would be more "impressive" but everybody would rather see him win another 100m/200m double at the Olympics. Nobody outside of our track community really cares about the world record. But a lot of people watch the Olympics. I personally would rather see him race at the Olympics than train for a 400m record he almost certainly would never get.

And yes, he's run some 4x400m legs over the years, but they have been few and far between. He split a 43.58 on a 4x400m anchor leg in 2010. And that was letting up the last 10 meters or so.

Bolt ran 43.something on a relay! That is not legend. It is fact. MM ,when is Slagowski going to run that 1:46 you predicted?

Richard Dumas wrote:

And yes, he's run some 4x400m legs over the years, but they have been few and far between. He split a 43.58 on a 4x400m anchor leg in 2010. And that was letting up the last 10 meters or so.

and

Blown whistler wrote:

Bolt ran 43.something on a relay! That is not legend. It is fact.

You both have forgotten: Without a link (or at least naming your source or the date & race), it didn't happen.

Blown whistler wrote:

Bolt ran 43.something on a relay! That is not legend. It is fact. MM ,when is Slagowski going to run that 1:46 you predicted?

Please show me the evidence. He simply hasn't. I dissected Bolt's '43.58' in this thread.

Well looks like next year now because Americans have a strange tradition where they stop racing in July despite world athletics continuing through to almost September.

laughing wrote:

Richard Dumas wrote:

And yes, he's run some 4x400m legs over the years, but they have been few and far between. He split a 43.58 on a 4x400m anchor leg in 2010. And that was letting up the last 10 meters or so.

and

Blown whistler wrote:

Bolt ran 43.something on a relay! That is not legend. It is fact.

You both have forgotten: Without a link (or at least naming your source or the date & race), it didn't happen.

Here's the video. Doesn't show him start to finish unfortunately.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

laughing wrote:

and

You both have forgotten: Without a link (or at least naming your source or the date & race), it didn't happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK2lPYfkG-8

Here's the video. Doesn't show him start to finish unfortunately.

Are you actually simple?

READ MY POST

The toughest double is the 100m/marathon