The runway looked bouncy to me, as do all indoor type runways of similar construction. I believe the rules say something about that, but as I recall it's quite subjective, and officials have been allowing indoor records on those runways for decades.
Wish the best for Morris, but for a lot of us, an outdoor jump or vault record should be made from a runway that is on the ground, so hope she can jump 5.04 on a real outdoor facility and put the matter to rest.
Sandi is a great athlete and of course she is able to jump as high but please do so at decent competitions and not in the middle of nowhere.. its ridiculous.
Plp67 wrote:
Sandi is a great athlete and of course she is able to jump as high but please do so at decent competitions and not in the middle of nowhere.. its ridiculous.
Yes, smelly Houston is in the middle of nowhere (Texas).
By the way interesting to see which girls are WADA listed. The Greek Stefanidi is not on IAAF's list while all others who have a medal chance are. How is this possible?
HipsterDoofus wrote:
Plp67 wrote:Sandi is a great athlete and of course she is able to jump as high but please do so at decent competitions and not in the middle of nowhere.. its ridiculous.
Yes, smelly Houston is in the middle of nowhere (Texas).
+100 hahaha
Love her!
I can't believe folks are questioning the validity of this. Get a life!
I hadn't thought of the bouncier platforms assisting indoor/street meets, but it makes sense.
Ehh wrote:
The runway looked bouncy to me, as do all indoor type runways of similar construction. I believe the rules say something about that, but as I recall it's quite subjective, and officials have been allowing indoor records on those runways for decades.
Wish the best for Morris, but for a lot of us, an outdoor jump or vault record should be made from a runway that is on the ground, so hope she can jump 5.04 on a real outdoor facility and put the matter to rest.
The record definitely appears suspect. The runway was elevated so I'm assuming that the standards and everything else were also elevated but I couldn't tell by watching the meet. if the standards were on the ground, it's clearly an issue.
also the bouncy surface she was running on is pretty much a trampoline, that will help her both run faster and jump higher.
I wonder if they were measuring the height with a tape measurer, and I think for a record you need a steel tape measurer. Can anyone that was there speak to this?
Great performance but it's not an American Record.
USATF, as well as the IAAF recognize both indoor and outdoor field event performances together.
Jenn's indoor performance at the Nationals is superior to any other America - outdoors as well. So she is the American Record Holder.
Another example is Lavillene who's performance indoors in Donetsk is listed as both the indoor and outdoor world record.
record is suspect wrote:
The record definitely appears suspect. The runway was elevated so I'm assuming that the standards and everything else were also elevated but I couldn't tell by watching the meet. if the standards were on the ground, it's clearly an issue.
also the bouncy surface she was running on is pretty much a trampoline, that will help her both run faster and jump higher.
I wonder if they were measuring the height with a tape measurer, and I think for a record you need a steel tape measurer. Can anyone that was there speak to this?
The standards being on the ground is not an issue as long as the bar is measured properly. No, you do not need a steel tape measure, most officials use lasers now.
Board runways are not basically a trampoline. Many vaulters do prefer them, and an argument can be made they offer an advantage over a traditional runway, but there are technical specs for their "bounciness" or whatever, and the advantage they have is slight at best.
polevaultpower wrote:
record is suspect wrote:The record definitely appears suspect. The runway was elevated so I'm assuming that the standards and everything else were also elevated but I couldn't tell by watching the meet. if the standards were on the ground, it's clearly an issue.
also the bouncy surface she was running on is pretty much a trampoline, that will help her both run faster and jump higher.
I wonder if they were measuring the height with a tape measurer, and I think for a record you need a steel tape measurer. Can anyone that was there speak to this?
The standards being on the ground is not an issue as long as the bar is measured properly. No, you do not need a steel tape measure, most officials use lasers now.
Board runways are not basically a trampoline. Many vaulters do prefer them, and an argument can be made they offer an advantage over a traditional runway, but there are technical specs for their "bounciness" or whatever, and the advantage they have is slight at best.
Thank your for your contributions to this thread and keeping it real in the face of the usual negatrons of lrc.
Sandi Morris is the future of Women's USA Pole Vaulting, she's recovered from injury and hit her stride.
She cleared that height with authority and so physically...a thing of beauty.
Steel tapes should always be used to calibrate the laser.
The laser should be programmed with the offset of the diameter of the cross bar (obviously the official is shooting from the ground to the bottom of the cross bar).
Standard practice is to calibrate the laser by measuring the cross bar on the ground several meters from the laser and comparing it to a measurement by a steel tape. This helps confirm the accuracy and the offset.
Well I guess it's all a moot point anyway since USATF apparently does not recognize outdoor American Records when the indoor record is superior.
polevaultpower wrote:
Well I guess it's all a moot point anyway since USATF apparently does not recognize outdoor American Records when the indoor record is superior.
Was protocol used to make sure the height was correct and re-measured post jump to certify?
This meet seems to look like b-meet management level.
I would like to hear from someone who was actually there and watching.
Do we have an official that was onsite to give us protocol follow up?
It's seems bs to count a record using a bouncy, downward sloping runway if such a runway is not used at the Olympics or World Championships. To me a non sloped, track surface runway evens the playing field. I don't know the actual rule, but a downhill runway, with a trampoline effect is not a fair comparison to historical jumps and Olympic and world championship performances held on standard runways.
What's the rule for records in the polevault?
I was there last night. There was a usatf official there, didn't pay too much attention to her but she was there. And in response to the other dude, it was not downward sloping.
It was built up and appeared to be higher at the end and slop down towards the takeoff point.
H-town trackster wrote:
It was built up and appeared to be higher at the end and slop down towards the takeoff point.
If the field was crowned, that might be necessary for a level runway
Missed her jump wrote:
polevaultpower wrote:Well I guess it's all a moot point anyway since USATF apparently does not recognize outdoor American Records when the indoor record is superior.
Was protocol used to make sure the height was correct and re-measured post jump to certify?
This meet seems to look like b-meet management level.
I would like to hear from someone who was actually there and watching.
Do we have an official that was onsite to give us protocol follow up?
The bar is NOT re-measured post-jump, just before. I'm sure that whatever official was there measured the bar properly.
The only major questions I have are about whether the runway was surveyed properly and whether the rubber rolled out on top of the runway made the box too deep to be legal.
H-town trackster wrote:
It's seems bs to count a record using a bouncy, downward sloping runway if such a runway is not used at the Olympics or World Championships. To me a non sloped, track surface runway evens the playing field. I don't know the actual rule, but a downhill runway, with a trampoline effect is not a fair comparison to historical jumps and Olympic and world championship performances held on standard runways.
What's the rule for records in the polevault?
Well there are many rules, but the most pertinent one is that temporary runways have to be properly surveyed to ensure they are not downhill. There are specs for this.
One issue we've had is that the rule does not specify that a transit must be used to survey the runway. To the best of my knowledge, the only way you can comply with the rule is by surveying the runway with a transit, but there are others in the pole vault community who seem to feel otherwise. It gets a little sketchy when we're just talking about whether or not a mark should count for USATF qualifying or me putting it in the FAST Annual, but when an actual record is being set, it gets scrutinized by the Rules Committee in December.
But I don't think the Committee will even look at this since it is inferior to the Indoor record. :/