13 year old going to nationals and afraid of front runners

Daniel LaCava had a great track career and was a stud at thirteen

Parbuster wrote:

Slow down coach let him have fun or he will quit before you know it.

Here's a little assignment for you to give you a little prospective.

Go back 8-9 years and look at the best 13 year olds in say the USATF Junior Olympics in the middle distance races. Then google them and see if:

a. they are still competing

b. did they go to college on a scholarship

c. are they still the best.

You'll be shocked to know the answer is less than 10% are still active.

Track especially middle and long distance is a killer on young bodies and minds. Do you see my point.

Yes i do see your point and I am very cognicent of it. Please read my original post again,

Honestly, his 100m is pretty solid. How developed is he physically? If he still has a lot of development left (compare him to his parents), I'd be tempted to nudge him towards the sprints. Close to 12 flat at his age if he isn't very developed yet could turn into some legit times in high school.

Keep helping him with distance too of course, but more emphasis on sprints could help him through some of the anxiety he is feeling over distance races.

Sprinkle in some field event training. What area are you guys in? You might have access to a pole vault club. 12s 100m speed is enough to be a solid vaulter, and he is almost certainly getting faster over the next few years. Learning to vault in middle school is a huge advantage. Again, it would help him keep things fresh and interesting, while allowing him to explore different events before potentially narrowing somewhat in a few years.

Thanks, I agree. Up until this year that was the area of focus. It still kind of is, but he asked to try longer events. But I agree, at this age I would rather he focus on sprinting and field events like pv and lj just to not losing any of his natural gift of speed.

Emphasize times not race place and this is what you get. A kid that can hit times on his own but not in competition.

He needs a training partner/ group to compete against regularly outside of the big races.

Everybody loses except 1 guy per race. And that guy loses every so often too.

Hey coach I think you got a great set up! All the USATF J/O nationals I attended the crowds always watched as the kids exploded from the start. The crowd just loved when some little dude way way back started to close. Everyone went wild as the way back kid was now catching them. Tell him the crowds love to see the Dave Wottle type race. We would actually mark every 50 meters on the track in practice. The girls and guys knew exactly what their first 50 meter split was to be and could do it with their eyes closed. By the 100 they hit their split exactly and they are way back. At 800, in the 1500 our kids race began. Tell him this is gonna be a blast and the crowd is gonna love him because he never gave up, so it appears. Id be excited if I were you guys. Make it way fun! Not that I'm telling you anything you already have been thinking about. For the kids the Wottle looking finish is the heros. MHO

We would also put like yellow police line tape on say a coaches rear belt line. Then tie the other end to our runners waste. We figured it out exactly so our runner could see the lead, what it would look like at different splits. So for example if we KNEW DARN well the #1 guy would hit 65 at 400 and we wanted a 68.5, the tape might be 20 meters long. So Ricky,.. at the 400 this is what his lead will look like exactly. Question might be "What if lead is longer?" If its longer he screwed up even more than we hoped because you hit 68.5 and stay patient, he must have hit 64...it will be easier on you now to gently close. We called it the Cheetah after the tired Gazelle. It was fun.

He does hit those times and can in top five in three events in his age group out of all regionals so I think he's fine and used to winning. The question is when there are some front runners who get similar times start out really quick, he gets a bit nervous and backs off a bit too much. He doesn't do this regionally, just at nationals or when there are older kids with the same time who come out quicker. That was my point and Im fine with him losing, just want him to stick to his style and plan and not get intimidated on the big stage.

thank you. I think that would be a great idea to try!

yes, i agree with Ochhy (sp).

the problem here is two-fold:

1) you are trying to change his natural/comfortable racing style

2) he is not ready or willing to make that change.

What he needs to be coached on is the fact that you can still win and run fast from behind...let all the idiots go out too fast and enjoy catching them. Learn not to get caught up in their pace.

when I raced this way - I would tell myself for the first 1/3 of the race they will be leaving me...the next 1/3 they will be slowing down so I should be passing them...last 1/3 some will pick it back up - so kick and be prepared for this.

Over time he may try to run a different strategy and if he has success he will develop it. I used to race exactly like him - (all the time) with pretty good success...but the shorter the race/ and bigger the stage the more challenging it was. But in college I became a front runner. eventually I could race from any spot - lead, follow, whatever it didn't really matter. that is what you ideally want to develop, but that takes years.

ironically the front runner kids (who go out too hard and don't win) have coaches trying to teach them to stop being front runners...instead of teaching them how to front run successfully. This is no different that trying to get Pre to become a pace runner vs a front runner. Why would a coach want to change what the runner does naturally especially if it works.

Dave Wottle example is the perfect example. watch the 72 800 oly finals where he comes from behind. he did not choose to run that way - he had to because he did not have the speed to lead. In post race interviews, he admits he was scared to death and was afraid he's be last....he ended up winning. by the guy that got 2nd and 3rd each ran a great race too. One lead, one ran on the others shoulder. but Each runner ran their own racing style.

show him this video!

Actually his best event is the 100m, not surprising as most kids are not well developed at that age. He's only 13. Good grief, give him some time to develop.

Wonderful. He's got a great strategy.

The best thing you can do is to not mess with this.

His best mile is 5 minutes, and you want him to go out faster than 4:36 pace. His best 800 is 2:13 and you want him to go out at 2:06 pace. He's got a great strategy on his own, especially for his age. Leave him alone and let him run how he wants.

He can do repeats fast, because he's very fast at 100m for his age, but he's not yet developed enough to hold his speed over increasingly longer middle distances. Running 400 repeats at 4:22 mile pace is NOT good preparation for him for the 1500m and mile!

I'd have him do specific pace work for the mile, and ditch the short recoveries because there is no point to him, and I see no reason to so drastically restrict his mileage, which is the reason he doesn't have any stamina at this point.

Of the coach, not the kid.

So what. That has no bearing on his performances, other then he's especially pleased that he keeps exceeding expectations. This is much better than an overbearing psychotic coach who tries to tell him he has mental problems.

He's right, but let him be surprised when he exceeds his expectations.

I agree, but ditch the idea of a faster first lap.

coach t wrote:

Please read my original post again,

Hi Matt's parents!

Also, I am not the one having my kid run a crap load of miles in three day stretches. What was that, a 5k, a 15k, and a half marathon in a couple days. THAT IS CHILD ABUSE LOSER

hggghf wrote:

Daniel LaCava had a great track career and was a stud at thirteen

I spent some time with LaCava during his Arkansas days. He did not enjoy running at that point.

jerrry wrote:

have coaches trying to teach them to stop being front runners...instead of teaching them how to front run successfully. This is no different that trying to get Pre to become a pace runner vs a front runner. Why would a coach want to change what the runner does naturally especially if it works.

Pre was not trained to be a front runner.

He was trained at race pace, and that's why he was successful.

I was agreeing with Jaguar (an incredibly talented ultra and marathon runner) brain surgeon. That wasn't my opinion, but I thought it merited exploration,

then why did he run in graduate school at loyola after college? He still seems to enjoy it to this day.