Monaco 1500m Men

With all the doping scandals going on, the dopers will be laying low. Not running anything suspicious. The winning time will be 3:33. I will be back on Friday when I'm proven right to revive this thread and have an honest discussion about the reality of doping.

Devil Dog wrote:

With all the doping scandals going on, the dopers will be laying low. Not running anything suspicious. The winning time will be 3:33. I will be back on Friday when I'm proven right to revive this thread and have an honest discussion about the reality of doping.

Except it's not that simple at all is it? Clearly endurance athletes these days would be most likely to be doping while in heavy training not in competition so why ease up for the most lucrative grand prix? In terms of Kiprop's time at Monaco, doesn't really matter what "the dopers" en masse are doing; he tends to go it alone against the clock. And his races and documented training show he's in phenomenal shape.

Self professed "realists" like yourself are absolutely wrong about the awkward reality of elite track and field. Cheating is possible and rampant in some areas but there are lots of clean athletes at the top level too. And there are no genuinely reliable tells to fans.

remember when Kiprop ran 3:28 before the 2012 olympics and sucked big time there (3:43, DFL)?

is there any logic in being in sub 3:30 shape at this point in the season before Olympics after trials etc?

Kiprop obviously did well at Monaco and WC's last year and it seems like guys go for it on that freaky fast track

bedoing bedoing wrote:

remember when Kiprop ran 3:28 before the 2012 olympics and sucked big time there (3:43, DFL)?

is there any logic in being in sub 3:30 shape at this point in the season before Olympics after trials etc?

Kiprop obviously did well at Monaco and WC's last year and it seems like guys go for it on that freaky fast track

He got injured (sick?) in 2012 during the Olympics. That's probably the only reason he wasn't the gold medalist. His performance in Monaco did not cause that.

I think this is the year of Kiprop: world record in Monaco, Gold in Rio.

Has the Kenyan 1500 team been selected yet?

Ingebrigsten brothers fresh off 1-2 at Euro Champs.

Look forward to Grice after his showing at Pre Classic.

I say three under 3:30.

Phantasy Star wrote:

Pretty gross that Kiprop hasn't been busted yet. Especially with the recent information about Rosa that's come to light.

I actually root for Makh Daddy over Kiprop. Sure, he's loaded too. But at least Makh is kinda humorous. Kiprop is yet another generic doped-up "18 year old" Kenyan turd.

Anyway, winning time: 3:27.

Clean winning time: whatever the first Norwegian runs. 3:32 maybe?

This is such bull****.

I actually think Kiprop is by far the most entertaining figure in Track & Field. He takes #1 from Bolt because the latter races only rarely during the season.

It cracks me up at the end of his races when he's just obliterated the competition opening up a 15m lead in the last 5 seconds, when he effortlessly raises a hand to the spectators and waves with such calmness it's as if he had just woken from a restful nap.

The way he races is exciting - that Emsley Carr mile when he took the lead, threw in a few false surges just to mess with Suleiman, then went all the off the back and up to the front again within 400m was anything but generic.

The dude is also the greatest outlier in terms of build on the entire circuit. He makes his Kenyan teammates look like pudgy midgets. I almost have to stifle a laugh just seeing him line up next to the world's fastest milers, who compared to him look like out of shape athletes from another sport.

My buddy saw Kiprop inject himself

I was wondering when Farah was going to race. He hasn't raced all outdoor season and doesn't seem to be entered in the London Diamond League.

Les wrote:

I was wondering when Farah was going to race. He hasn't raced all outdoor season and doesn't seem to be entered in the London Diamond League.

What? You don't remember the Pre 10K? Also he ran the 3K at the Birmingham DL, where he broke the British record.

And last I saw, he is scheduled to run the 5K at the London DL ...

flying lizards wrote:Clearly endurance athletes these days would be most likely to be doping while in heavy training not in competition

Well that sure does go a long way in explaining why Jama Aden was arrested in possession of hoards of PEDs in the presence of his entire training group in the middle of the diamond league schedule.

And there are no "tells" for the fans to know a doper? Like for example your coach or agent being being investigated, and subsequently arrested for providing PEDs to athletes?

If I'm a realist, does that make you an "un-realist"? Someone who'd rather pretend that the top tier is not rife with cheaters?

Phantasy Star wrote:

Clean winning time: whatever the first Norwegian runs. 3:32 maybe?

You mean whatever Gregson runs?

Unless everybody has woken up by now and people like Kamworor go at WR pace.

Seriously mate? wrote:

No Willis? Is he training up until the Games or will he enter a meet or two?

Nick Willis wants to prove he can run a sub 3:30 somewhere else, after I said he can't.

Devil Dog wrote:

flying lizards wrote:Clearly endurance athletes these days would be most likely to be doping while in heavy training not in competition

Well that sure does go a long way in explaining why Jama Aden was arrested in possession of hoards of PEDs in the presence of his entire training group in the middle of the diamond league schedule.

And there are no "tells" for the fans to know a doper? Like for example your coach or agent being being investigated, and subsequently arrested for providing PEDs to athletes?

If I'm a realist, does that make you an "un-realist"? Someone who'd rather pretend that the top tier is not rife with cheaters?

By "out of competition", I mean literally; not injecting EPO the night before a competition. There's no reason why the performances of anyone except Jama Aden's crew should suddenly deteriorate.

A "tell" is not the same as evidence, your comprehension is flawed.

Of course there are lots of cheaters; testing is weak and corruption is proven. I don't see anyone - anyone at all - that disagrees with this. But the awkward truth, is that there are plenty of clean athletes, and cheating is not evenly distributed. So complete credulity and complete cynicism are both the wrong responses.

Someone like Kiprop here is a classic example of the duality. Out of this world talent displayed from an early age, regular racer with no suspicious spikes in performance, allows public/journalists to watch him train (cf El Guerrouj's secrecy); friendly with competitors who appear to deplore cheats like Willis (cf seemingly frosty response to G. Dibaba on circuit). On the other hand; clearly easy to get drugs in Kenya, testing poor in Kenya, sponsored by cheat-tolerating Nike, associated with the Rosas.

In conclusion: get off your high horse. You're a "realist", not a realist. Accept your - our - ignorance.

klubkip1 wrote:

Unless everybody has woken up by now and people like Kamworor go at WR pace.

it was tried at worlds. In top shape Farah isnt beatable by the current crop in a championship race. Plus like worlds Kamworor would have to do all the work himself and Farah would just hold on until 400 to go. Only way i see Farah losing a 5/10k is if it was a diamond league and they had multiple pacers at close to wr shape. There isnt a bekele or Geb out there to challenge him.

Makhloufi is the clean world record holder

Just curious as to whether you know what you're talking about; what recent information about Rosa has "come to light"?

Did you mean the recent Kenyan witch hunt that has resulted from the corrupt Barnabas Korir (same guy who has some of the 500k worth of Nike money in his pocket) and his desire to extort money from the Rossa's by utilizing the newly passed anti-doping legislation to allow Kenyan authorities to arrest Rossa without due process? Or did you really think that the Kenyan authorities put together an investigation???

Or perhaps you are talking about how this trial has exposed how sports agencies, like the Rossa's, are the last places you would find doping? The money in East African athletic management is not so great that you would risk losing your management license, privileges to the region and bring about lawsuits and prosecution by recklessly dealing in PED's? The recent testimonies, such as Matthew Kisorio's, reveal how doping in Kenya is on an individual basis, and by and large is administered by local doctors. The majority of the drug busts have also been on second and third tier athletes.

Which brings me to Asbel. What makes you believe that the man is dirty? Is it the fact that he is the best at what he does, and that exceptional individuals must, of course, be cheaters? Does it make him a "turd" that he started his athletic career riding a bicycle around town all day selling mandazi's for less than a penny, and with this money paid for a small shack where he trained from at dawn and at dusk. Maybe he is a "gross" because despite training in a living hell since the early 2000's, he still managed to win world junior cross in Mombassa in 2007, and has progressively improved every year, for the past 9 years, to now threaten the world record in the 1500m. And maybe you think that because he supports over 30 amateur athletes around Iten, giving them clothing, food, shelter, and transportation to local races, makes him less entertaining than the other guys on the Diamond league circuit?

I don't think so... So next time you post your idiotic cynicism on these threads, please remember that you're speaking to an audience that actually knows what their talking about. Maybe you can do your next high school research paper on the rise of ignorance in today's society?

mkrun wrote:

klubkip1 wrote:

Unless everybody has woken up by now and people like Kamworor go at WR pace.

it was tried at worlds. In top shape Farah isnt beatable by the current crop in a championship race. Plus like worlds Kamworor would have to do all the work himself and Farah would just hold on until 400 to go. Only way i see Farah losing a 5/10k is if it was a diamond league and they had multiple pacers at close to wr shape. There isnt a bekele or Geb out there to challenge him.

Last year at Worlds, Kam talked up a storm of how he was going to whoop Mo. And although he did push the pace for once to make it a fair tempo he did not live up to what he said he would. However I think Kam is a smart guy and learned from that. He definitely wasn't happy to settle for 2nd. Ideally Kam should go out at WR pace, get his teammates to help him and he breaks Farah and holds on for a time in the 26:30's. I don't think Farah could live with that pace.

[/quote]

Last year at Worlds, Kam talked up a storm of how he was going to whoop Mo. And although he did push the pace for once to make it a fair tempo he did not live up to what he said he would. However I think Kam is a smart guy and learned from that. He definitely wasn't happy to settle for 2nd. Ideally Kam should go out at WR pace, get his teammates to help him and he breaks Farah and holds on for a time in the 26:30's. I don't think Farah could live with that pace.[/quote]

What makes you think Kam could live with that pace? He certainly hasn't demonstrated anything like that in the 10k.