First Aden athlete arrested

My two cents and more wrote:

What about athletes who are supplied drugs by coaches, trainers, agents, etc... in exchange for a bigger share of race prize winnings? This scenario seems to be occurring in various locations. Mr. Torrence claimed that Aden may have tried to supply him with drugs (for free), but Torrence refused to take them.

Already the case in cycling. John Hendershot

John Hendershot, who worked for Armstrong in Europe, said, “What we did was tread the fine line of dropping dead on your bike and winning

+1

Some virtually unknown Kenyans have been coming to the Gold Coast Marathon, Australia in the last couple of years and cleaning up $20/30/40 thousand dollars in appearance/finish place/record bonus. They're not on the IAAF list for monitoring so must be a good investment versus small monetary risk for a manager/coach footing the bill of a few hundred dollars equivalent in Kenya to put these type of fellas on a PED regime.

Gimme some truth wrote:

eswallace wrote:http://www.efe.com/efe/espana/deportes/detenido-el-atleta-musaeb-balla-acusado-de-colaborar-con-jama-aden/10006-2962702

Looks like a 1:43 800 runner was arrested for colloborating with Jama by Spanish police.

In other words a 1:43 runner who does not make anywhere near 2 million $$$, but we expect that Donavan Brazier to make 2 million? Riiiight.

What people need to remember is that Nike and other shoe companies pay sponsorship money and not a salary as an employee.

If a female runner has run a 4:07 PR (not talking of anyone specifically) for the 1500 but is extremely attractive and outgoing, she will make more in sponsorship money than the 4:01 unattractive or person who keeps to themselves. That does not mean that that person will be able to get into all of the meets that the 4:01 runner can and may not earn prize money or appearance fees that the 4:01 runner gets but that is because the prize/appearance fees are based more towards how you do while the sponsorship is what you can do for the sponsor.

That is a big thing of how team and individual sports are different.

Most Kenyan runners are making money from appearance and prize money, not endorsement contracts, as you well know. And as this example of Jama Aden shows, the athletes don't need to afford the drugs or even know that they are being administered to them. To think they are almost all doping on the top world level is probably just realistic. Here were nabbed some of the top talents in the sport, potentially three Dibabas involved, plus Souleiman, Musaeb, Kaki, and the 500m indoor record holder Haroun. Farah may be implicated as well. The Russians were systematically doping. 50 Kenyans have tested positive in recent years. 9 Ethiopians were caught with Meldonium earlier this year, and two former Ethiopian females, medal winners, the Swede Aregawi and the Turkish athlete, tested positive for drugs.

Open your eyes, coach!

Canova...why do you bother with these guys?

They don't know how management agencies are structured, they don't know how contracts are structured in Kenya as opposed to the US. They don't know the hoops AK has mangement jump through or the risk that managers take in signing and supporting a runner. Nor do they know how hard these athletes work, how long they have to wait to maybe get a pay day. They don't see the level of education many of these runners have and the lack of resources in rural Kenya.

How many runners on average does a management agency like Gianni, Volare, or Global have signed to contracts...50 or so each? How much would it cost to dope all of them for three years (or more) while they develop in the hopes that a couple might break through? It seems to me the better business decision is to invest in runners whom you have confidence they can win without the gamble of doping.

All they know is that Kenyans beat Americans so something must be wrong. It can't be that they work harder than us...they must be cheating.

eswallace wrote:

For some reason, people on these boards always think times directly correlate to how much money you make. Sponsorships are all about promoting and growing the company, you are a walking/running advertisement. Brazier has been all over magazines, sports networks and even the WSJ. That is how you get to a $2 million evaluation.

I haven't seen one magazine, advertisement, sports network, etc with Brazier and I follow the sport more than some. But do you really think anyone outside of NCAA track or professional track knows anything about him? If you find one random person who knows brazier I'll give it to you. But that's impossible.

You must have also bought into Pets.com in 1998. In other words, your $2m valuation is absurd.

VAcoach wrote:

Canova...why do you bother with these guys?

They don't know how management agencies are structured, they don't know how contracts are structured in Kenya as opposed to the US. They don't know the hoops AK has mangement jump through or the risk that managers take in signing and supporting a runner. Nor do they know how hard these athletes work, how long they have to wait to maybe get a pay day. They don't see the level of education many of these runners have and the lack of resources in rural Kenya.

Wrong, we do know all those things.

You chose to ignore one other thing that we also know, but just us but also the IAAF and WADA, and that's PED use. Tip of the iceberg so far?, or is the IAAF and WADA making it all up and the Olympic ban just a publicity seeking idle threat?

Take your head out of the sand and do a bit of research and have a good look around, just because you use the handle of VAcoach doesn't make you some wise sage or oracle that we here should all bow down to.

First, VAcoach simply refers to the state I coach in.

Secondly, there is nothing in this post that gives any evidence that you understand the economics of professional running in East Africa...very different from the US.

Riddle me this, what are the central components of a running contract for a new runner in Kenya? With whom do these runners enter into contract with?

Of course there is PED use, and it is a tremendous problem, but if you understood the economics of it, you would (a) realize which runners are most likely to use (b) understand that it is not as wide-spread as the mzungu pundits suggest.

BTW you should bow down to me for completely different reasons.

He already answered this question even before you asked, in his risk/reward analysis -- "maybe 1000 USD".

Inner Tube wrote:

...

Tell me, how much do you think a typical year's supply of the good stuff, for one athlete, costs in Kenya?

I await your response before giving you the real figure.

I'm sorry but this is a very inaccurate statement. If someone runs 4:01, they'll absolutely make more money than someone who runs 4:07, regardless of how attractive they are...because a 4:01 runner has a good shot at making global finals and winning bigger races. Look at Berian - he doesn't have the most outgoing personality, but the legal reports show how much money he's made for each big race he's won this year. How one does in a race is connected to what one does for a shoe company because they're representing that company in a very positive way by running really well. A 4:01 1500 runner would probably be top 10 or so in the world timewise, which would increase their popularity immensely (especially domestically in their country), give them more opportunities to compete in big meets, and would probably land them a whole bunch of advertisement deals with either their own shoe company, or for other companies as well to promote the sport and the shoe company. A 4:07 runner could do well domestically, but is not going to be widely recognised internationally, while a 4:01 athlete would most likely crush the 4:07 athlete in a race, and would get a good amount of international recognition for themselves and their sponsor. Also Nike does pay an annual salary on top of sponsorship money - yes, they are different but are both included. And dude, being more attractive is probably not gonna change your salary or sponsorship money...not sure what world you're living in.

Clearly you have never been to Africa. Go ahead and load up Google Maps and browse some of the pictures of Iten or Eldoret, where all the runners live. I'll help you out with the first two.

This is the post office if Iten:

!3m8!1e2!3m6!1s116717125!2e1!3e10!6s%2F%2Flh4.googleusercontent.com%2Fproxy%2F7kY8Tk69GA7NCj9p5qwaEcAypCBxxbRyLCFpsWsXv9MnqGNaNHkK1gnSvvdMHfXsnwW1B9SdDVUyhLtigDAV9FyEsW-TuMg%3Dw203-h115!7i3648!8i2074!4m5!3m4!1s0x178116c399d61c2b:0xf6f9a7f171689847!8m2!3d0.6732354!4d35.5083136!6m1!1e1

This is the main road:

!3m8!1e2!3m6!1s116717121!2e1!3e10!6s%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fproxy%2F9TQPP0TyzFOp2QJnJn3120eF2pgiyfTkQiQ0cI4geoZP9P9JJVXq0YnyJqGYR_wapn_2CNNvMB_xJfq3x8L1U30Oyfvhue8%3Dw207-h100!7i3648!8i1759!4m5!3m4!1s0x178116c399d61c2b:0xf6f9a7f171689847!8m2!3d0.6732354!4d35.5083136!6m1!1e1

Do you see these little tin covered stick and mud huts on the side of the road? Do you really think these guys are just going online and ordering to their (tin) door? Do you actually think these places even have official addresses? I don't understand how you idiots complain in one thread about "age cheating" (no birth certificate issued) but expect that these guys really have a "ship to shantytown, Kenya" option on the black market online drug websites. At least in Kenya, unlike Ethiopia, most of the roads have names. I'm pretty sure this guy gets two fedex shipments per day:

!3m8!1e2!3m6!1s105366416!2e1!3e10!6s%2F%2Flh6.googleusercontent.com%2Fproxy%2FsCisLMZMMpFDyyVthredckFzATLVqCjx2WKd-4pSQOIXx0dLBjA73ZJUvUF9UeNMDlQtBujqAJHIGDQmCxsjXYjEH5Yb2kY%3Dw203-h134!7i1000!8i665

Also, you don't think people would get suspicious of their coach going and receiving bulk packages from the post office? You think somebody like Jama Aden or Canova (one of the only white people in the whole city) really fly under the radar anywhere in East Africa? Yes, obviously some dope is getting in, but it's not nearly as simple as you are implying.

Oh yeah, there is nothing sophisticated about blood doping. Tell this to a farmer that dropped out of school in 6th grade, has never owned a tv, doesn't have internet access, and doesn't speak English. Sounds like an easy way to kill yourself, not knowing about unsterile needles, cycle lengths, doses, and not having any refrigeration. Surely this guy has a ton of needle knowledge

!3m8!1e2!3m6!1s100993296!2e1!3e10!6s%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fproxy%2Fp9sOHfwwwqXvQbDmscedXbqecZSwxXXMIXWXS5YgOm5UwkKvGCHl9QeLV3SwolL-vNrb2G_adkdDYNTD-xSsqOo9thZox_k%3Dw203-h135!7i1920!8i1281

I can't believe I am on this thread defending this point, but you guys are truly morons. There is a lot of dope floating around, but it is not easy to get and these athletes need help to administer it which comes at a price.

You realize the 2 million was over the life of the contract, not per year right? I don't think brazier would get 2 million/year even if he was a 42/139 guy.

The Police found EPO in the room of Balla:

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The judge removed the passport to coach Jama Aden by doping

judge obliges the Somali, the athlete Musaeb Balla and the physiotherapist Ouarid Mounir occur once a month on the court

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Barcelona 22 Jun 2016 - 22:40 CEST

The coach Jama Aden, detained by the Mossos.

The Coach Jama Aden, detained by the Mossos. JOAN SANCHEZ

the judge on duty of Sabadell has decided today to remove the Somali passport to Jama Aden, coach of some of the best in the world, mediofondistas and require you to sign in to the court once a month, accused of doping in the rial operation. The prosecution had asked in this case also preventive detention before the risk of leakage, something that in the end the judge has not accepted. The Mossos found in his room at the Hotel Arrahona various medications prohibited in Spain, and several syringes that are pedientes to analyze.

In the same situation is the athlete Musaeb Balla, whom the agents found EPO in your room. Must appear once a month and he has withdrawn the passport. The Mossos first took a statement to the athletes in quality of investigated, because they considered that the dose found could be for their own consumption. But then admitted in his statement that he was injured, so that there would be no sense in dopase. At that time the agents detained him.

The judge has not agreed the precautionary detention measure for the physiotherapist Ouarid Mounir, to whom he has also withdrawn the passport and obliges him to appear once a month. The Mossos they found him the greatest amount of EPO, and suspect who is pricked to athletes.

The lawyers of the three are going to appeal the decision, which especially to Aden. The coach was preparing his team in Sabadell for the Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro, which begin on 5 August. Among them, the Ethiopian mediofondista Genzebe Dibaba, elected last December by the International Federation of athletics (IAAF) athlete of the year 2015 after that blend the world record of 1500 and the proclamation of the world champion of the distance in Beijing.

The team of Aden continued yesterday in Sabadell, where the anti-doping Agency took them declaration, before the administrative investigation that have open. In addition, are still awaiting the outcome of the analysis surprise that carried out by the International Federation of Athletics and the Spanish Agency of health protection in the sport

$25,000 to $35,000 tops for a Kenyan.

TrackCoach wrote:

[quote]Renato Canova wrote:

Btw, there are even disparities even in the USA. Take Mary Cain and Candice Hill for example, both athletes turned pro at the same age. Cain's 1500m PR was 4:04 when she signed her contract with Nike. Cain's 4:04 ranked her 26th on the 2013 world list and ranked 24th on the all-time junior list. Hill's 100m PR was 10.98 when she signed her contract with Nike. Hill's 10:98 ranked her 18th on the 2013 world list and ranked 3rd on the all-time junior list. Who do you think has bigger Nike contract? - Life isn't always fair.

.

Not sure you have any clue what you are talking about?

As for salary offers, a 24-year old 1:43 guy who bombed out at Nationals will not get anything like the offer for a 19-year old 1:43 who dominated Nationals, broke venerable National Jr and collegiate records and is much more impressive in terms of image. Not to mention that the quality of the agent bears significantly in negotiations.

As always, it is interesting to hear the reasoning and opinion of someone who knows exactly what they are talking about with respect to world class running and runners. So few on these boards (me included) have any direct experience with this and do not know exactly what to think when another horror like this Aden training group blows up.

Thanks for the insights and I look forward to seeing your athletes do their amazing thing again this year!

So, really somebody can think these athletes can spend a lot of money for having sophisticated doping ? How is it possible that stupid people in Letsrun can continue to compare these athletes with Lance Armstrong ?

Its not the athletes that are putting up the money...think bigger.

Renato Canova wrote:

When I speak about "sophisticated doping" I face the opinion of a lot of people here, thinking that everybody is doped, "but they know how avoid to be caught.

I absolutely respect what you have to say and appreciate your contributions to this board. You provide us with honest and straight forward answers to questions about the internals of elite athletics that we don't get from anywhere else. Anyone who knows your background would be wise to listen to what you have to say. However, reading your post overtime, I realize you only know what you know. With all due respect, your expertise is in coaching, designing training systems and working with African athletes, but your knowledge of doping is lacking. I think that has been proven.

A separate issue.

Females:

Salwa Eid Naser, Bahrain (51.63 ); Habitam Alemu, Ethiopia (1:59.14).

Males:

Abdullah Abkar Mohammed, Saudi Arabia (10.04) DOB: 1/1/1997; Baboloki Thebe, Botswana (44.22 ); Abdalelah Haroun, Qatar (44.27) DOB: 1/1/1997; Abadi Embaye, Ethiopia (13:02.49), DOB: 1/1/1999

What is the background on these incredible junior athletes? How can a 17 year old run a 13:02 5K and appears to have come from out of no where. Why these athlete's name don't appear in any of their country's national age-group or grade school competition results and why are so many athletes born on January 1st?