I love TM training. I used it successfully to run a 58 min 10 mile and 27 min 5 mile race. Did about 90% of my training on the treadmill. I definitely find that I get less wear and tear injuries while TM training. Usually when I injure myself it's some long 20 mile run on pavement outside or downhill running. Yes, I know I could do trail runs but it involves too much driving to and from site.
runnerdnerd wrote:
" A treadmill is never any serious runners first choice for a workout, .
That is false.
I have read of a lot of runners who do specific treadmill workouts. I consider myself a serious runner and my go to speed workout last summer was done on the treadmill.
Exact paces..... wrote:
runnerdnerd wrote:" A treadmill is never any serious runners first choice for a workout, .
That is false.
I have read of a lot of runners who do specific treadmill workouts. I consider myself a serious runner and my go to speed workout last summer was done on the treadmill.
I'm not sure if I'd be considered a serious runner or not butI did run a 2:18 marathon. I used a treadmill for about 40% of my milage. Since I did all my training by myself I found the tradmill useful for speed work. My logic was that I could run faster splits if I was being pushed by other runners but I did not train with other runners. I programmed my treadmill to go X pace for X minutes. I was forced to keep this pace. I feel that If I was by myself on a track I would have had a difficult time hitting the splits that I wanted to hit.
as mentioned you push off with the same force regardless of the incline, but you still need a longer stride, therefore a bigger range of motion -> more turnover. So yes, there is a bit of an advantage.
opc wrote:
as mentioned you push off with the same force regardless of the incline, but you still need a longer stride, therefore a bigger range of motion -> more turnover. So yes, there is a bit of an advantage.
This makes no sense.
If you're referring to my post, that's not what I mean at all. Force is not independent of incline, force is what determines how hard you're working and so if you're exerting the same force whether inside or outside it does not matter, but if you're running the same "speed" on a treadmill that you would be running outside, at 0% incline you are exerting less force to go the same speed. You increase the incline so that you exert a similar force as you would outside. A longer stride also comes from exerting more force.
Maybe everyone is over thinking it.
Just run a certain effort no matter the incline.
sorry i meant for the same intensity your push off force is the same regardless of incline. so for 10 mph at 0% you produce the same push off force as (10-X) mph at 1% or (10-greaterX) mph at 5% etc.
I trained for my PR marathon by doing all but a couple workouts on a treadmill at 0%. I was training mostly around 5000' for a race at 1500', so I found it beneficial to keep it at 0%. I really liked how controllable the effort was on a treadmill and eventually I got into good enough shape that I dropped my PR from 2:50 to 2:42 after spending 4 years between 2:52 and 2:50. Whenever I get back into good enough shape to marathon again, I will definitely repeat the treadmill workouts.
runnerdnerd wrote:
A treadmill is never any serious runners first choice for a workout, it's always because it allows for some sort of scientific testing (vo2 testing, for example) or because there is some reason they can't run outside (blizzard conditions, crazy heatwave, etc.) So to me, insisting on setting it at 1 or 2% incline seems a bit insignificant.
Tell that to 3.31 runner Henrik Ingebrigtsen who does just the opposite of what youre saying there. Same with 13.06 bakken and Ingrid Kristiansen and 13.11 Buraas.
why indeed wrote:
And why wear running shoes on the treadmill when you can go faster if you wear rollerblades. And why do they call it Ovaltine? The mug is round. The jar is round. They should call it Roundtine.
Post of the year. Bravo
Exact paces..... wrote:
runnerdnerd wrote:" A treadmill is never any serious runners first choice for a workout, .
That is false.
I have read of a lot of runners who do specific treadmill workouts. I consider myself a serious runner and my go to speed workout last summer was done on the treadmill.
Marius Bakken did about half of his workouts on the traedmill, even durin track season, and he ran 13,06.
Well,.,. wrote:
Exact paces..... wrote:That is false.
I have read of a lot of runners who do specific treadmill workouts. I consider myself a serious runner and my go to speed workout last summer was done on the treadmill.
Marius Bakken did about half of his workouts on the traedmill, even durin track season, and he ran 13,06.
Fair enough. I guess I should amend it to "a treadmill is not *most* serious runners first choice for a workout." There are exceptions to every rule I suppose. Here is an interesting article (from 5 years ago) of some elite runners talking about how/why they use treadmills:
http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/treadmill-workouts-and-treadmill-running-tips-for-real-runnersIt looks like some of them do it for the ability to really control pace precisely, some for the ability to run continuous uphills, some for a perceived improvement in recovery, and of course Marius Bakken seems to just like it.
I think *most* elite runners who use a treadmill in training would say they don't enjoy it though and would prefer to be outside, but the treadmill is giving something they can't get outside.
400m800m wrote:
Hill repeats are useful for the same reason you go on an incline. You can push yourself without going anywhere near your max speed, which is injury preventative.
^^^This. The treadmill is a very useful tool to carry out high-level aerobic training without a lot of pounding. Just run at incline.
In college, I could easily bang out 3 miles at 12 mph/zero incline on the treadmill at my school's rec center. However, I could not replicate this speed on the road. Treadmills are notoriously inaccurate for replicating running on flat surfaces.
for what it's not worth wrote:
I dislike treadmills because there is minimal convective cooling effect. Therefore I get overheated more quickly than if I was running outside and cutting through the air.
This. I get so overheated anytime I try to workout on a treadmill. Although I can imagine this would make it an invaluable tool for someone training in a cool climate for a hot race, like a lot of the guys who ran the marathon trials a few months ago.
1% incline correlates to running outside so you can compare your TM running with a track. You could change the incline any way you want and calculate the correlations using the tables in Daniel's book.
Might be instructive to change the inclines and paces to see if the same VO use is easier or harder at different inclines.
Tom
Derderian wrote:
Might be instructive to change the inclines and paces to see if the same VO use is easier or harder at different inclines.
Tom
Derderian understands the value of individualized empirical studies. Some people have different reactions to incline than others. The general rule of 4% impact on speed for each 1% of incline doesn't apply equally. Some runners aren't affected by incline very much, and a few with highly rare physiology can actually run faster uphill.
My understanding is that the running motion on a treadmill is slightly different than on the road; having a slight incline on the treadmill minimizes this difference and leads to a more natural stride.
X-Runner wrote:
Maybe everyone is over thinking it.
Just run a certain effort no matter the incline.
This
greg L wrote:
Treadmill running is easier than outdoor running because you basically stand in the same place and just lift your legs. If you put on incline you run uphill all the way, and that evens out the oxygen uptake compared to outdoor running.
Good God I hope you were trolling/joking....
Mr. Doritos wrote:
In college, I could easily bang out 3 miles at 12 mph/zero incline on the treadmill at my school's rec center. However, I could not replicate this speed on the road. Treadmills are notoriously inaccurate for replicating running on flat surfaces.
Typical Sanders voter. Blame someone else instead of yourself. Did you consider that maybe YOU are the one failing to replicate your running on flat surfaces? Treadmill running is mentally easier in lots of ways that could explain your difference. Also, you'll be much more efficient and perfectly paced on a treadmill.