Contradiction wrote:
What you said doesn't make sense to me. The elites are running higher mileage, which is poor training? Or by elite are you talking about Brazier only, who is doing "poor training" but running 1:43.5.
Running any amount of steady-state or "aerobic" mileage is poor training. All 800m specialists at all levels who run mileage are training poorly. Elite status is a consequence of elite genetics, not elite training.
Contradiction wrote:
Good Analysis, if this is true I wonder how long the base he has from HS will last. One can always implement basic speed into their base, so I agree with you on the question of why 800 guys are afraid of base.
Right. Hopefully he doesn't completely ignore the base he's done in the past (albeit not very much in the first place). We'll see, you can only work on speed so much, hard to improve a lot on 45.7 speed.
Tell that to the numerous sub 1:50 guys who run somewhere from 60-80MPW in base phase. Perhaps you are right, we have been approaching 800 training wrong for all these years.
Contradiction wrote:
Tell that to the numerous sub 1:50 guys who run somewhere from 60-80MPW in base phase. Perhaps you are right, we have been approaching 800 training wrong for all these years.
There's nothing wrong with both approaches, for the elite guys, they need a lot more speed work. They're only running for 1:45 while high schoolers are running for over 2 minutes.
Same with women in a 10k, how do you train men and women the same when women need to race for nearly 3-5 minutes longer? If you're running over 1:55 in an 800 you might benefit more working on your aerobic strength. You don't need much speed to average 57.5 for 2 laps.
I don't think 800 runners should be afraid of mileage during the off season, doing 80 miles a week during the season is just crazy though.
Exactly, periodization is key. Base when the time is right, sharpen when the time comes. I was just shocked at how fast Brazier was able to run as the article of him doing 20-30MPW was from winter. He has been sustaining this low mileage for at least 6 months now, which is pretty crazy to me.
Contradiction wrote:
So then why do all of the elite 800 guys do a lot of mileage in base phase and continue with the higher mileage in later phases, dropping it some, but not all the way into the 20s? Brazier is using a totally different approach, and it's working. Does anyone know more about his training than what was said in the article?
But do they? You've made that statement but have nothing to back it up.
Brother Colm has stated that the man that runs 1:40 PEAKED at 60 KILOMETRES a week in the base phase. His longest run ever is apparently 7.5 miles.
He ran 47 once. So he was a 48/49 runner. Educate yourself
Interesting, do you know of anyone else besides Rudisha and Brazier doing these approaches? Maybe it's because both of them are clear 400/800 guys, and like someone above said, need to work on speed a lot more because they are running so fast for 2 laps.
I broke 1:50 never running more than 30mpw. You're assessment of 60-80mpw is just your opinion. Brazier hasn't revolutionised anything with his training. This is how 400/800 and 800m specialist train.
The notion of 'special endurance' has been laughed at around here before, but it works. Jogging about for x miles a week doesn't directly help the endurance needed in an 800m in the same way that running hard 700m reps do.
go to ahtletic.net and see he progression. ANd like i said he was running 50.x a little over a year ago. His 47.xx PR.Is a PR? His progression is not natural. Deal with it. And please read on the subject of PEDs.
HE IS A CLEAR DOPER!
Olympic Truth wrote:
He ran 47 once. So he was a 48/49 runner. Educate yourself
Ha! Unless you are deciding to ignore the numerous 4x4 splits he ran. Nice try.
I think you need to realize that its the drugs that make them great not a particular training program. Planning a program based on the elite runners that are using and have been using for a long time sets you up for failure or injury.
Olympic Truth wrote:
go to ahtletic.net and see he progression. ANd like i said he was running 50.x a little over a year ago. His 47.xx PR.Is a PR? His progression is not natural. Deal with it. And please read on the subject of PEDs.
I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Athletic.net is a great website, a great website that doesn't list every single result an athlete runs.
I am becasue they actually don't count as a 400. I have looked as his progression.
None of you guys know what you're talking about!
Olympic Truth wrote:
I am becasue they actually don't count as a 400. I have looked as his progression.
Alright I see now that you are just looking for any excuse to argue. Donavan Brazier is on drugs. Everyone in the world who has ever PRed is also on drugs, I hope my statements leave you satisfied. I hope your day gets better.
Wow you are soooo smart. I don't need every single race. It is fairly obvious what he was capable of running. So did he run a 46 in the same year his PR was 47.9 or some great 800 in 1;47?
Im going to let you on to a little secret.... THEY ALL USE.
I see you just want to argue your perspective and not listen to others. So you are great.
Contradiction wrote:
Interesting, do you know of anyone else besides Rudisha and Brazier doing these approaches? Maybe it's because both of them are clear 400/800 guys, and like someone above said, need to work on speed a lot more because they are running so fast for 2 laps.
Most elites are secretive about their training so I cannot be certain. Nijel Amos ran something like a 43.9 4x400m split in Rio so I'd bet he is a good candidate for this style of training.
Honestly, most here would straight up not believe me if I told you my true summer mileage when i first broke 1:50, including warm ups and warm downs (I was a VERY lazy kid). The 800m just doesn't need that much mileage.