3:40 FLAT
3:40 FLAT
Ryun's inability to fully capitalize on his talent leads to much speculation. However, talent is not everything. Manzano has matched Ryun's times and Olympic silver through force of will.
Expert Netwerk wrote:
3:39 high.
Ventolin?
5 wrote:
Factor in that he ran to/from school. Add to that he lifted in the morning at school. Plus, he was on a cinder track. Use all modern day equipment and training to someone like that, and I think the 3:49 3:50 is pretty close.
Of course a parent today would be hung if they let their kid run to school.
Hanged
Webb lost wrote:
never played wrote:3:55-56.
Better conditions to run in but he wouldn't have been doing 110 miles per week with 4 days of speedwork.
I think Webb would have broken Ryun's record in any era.
When Ryun ran 3:55 he beat the Olympic champion. When Webb ran 3:53 he finished in 5th place, 3-1/2 seconds buried by the race winner. So, no, Webb would never beat Ryun in a mile if they were the same age in HS and running in the same race.
This is assuming Olympic champions are all the same. They are not. Foolish assumption. Be careful when talking about El G.
Are we talking about Ryun in High School? If so, Ryun has said more than once that his 3:55.3 to beat Snell was pretty much his maximum effort for him at that stage in his career. The track they raced on that day was pretty quick, certainly quicker than the one on which he set his first WR.
All time? Ryun could certainly have run well under 3:50. Think about this;
1) Remove him from college and the competitive demands of three seasons a year.
2) Let him train specifically to peak in a European summer; balmy Scandinavian evenings, first class tracks, well paced races, the best competition, considerable financial rewards etc., etc.
A guy who ran 3:51.1 from the front, winning a national title in the process must have been capable of a second a lap quicker?
Let's see worse shoes (probably about 5 pounds in his early years), cinder, dirt, clay, or grass tracks, extremely different training philosophy from today, etc.
He also retired in 1974, that would make him 27. What would have happened if he did not do 40 X 440 all those years? 1967 was his peak year. He was 20 or 21 that year! If he was under some of the best coaches of today and with the shoes, tracks, and clothing we have today:
No question 3:41 or faster. I am not sure he was the best of all time. I always thought Herb Elliot of Australia was the best. Peter Snell was up there with Ryun.
Us old timers may be slightly off, but no one can say that the runners of yester year would not have run faster. The rules/environments are not even close to the same.
"Ryun said the track was fast."
Well of course he did, for that era! You cannot compare even the tracks of the late 1980s to the superfast ones we have today.
Remember that Tommie C. Smith ran 19.5 in the 220 yard dash in the mid-1960s. Yes he did it on a straightaway. But in 5 pound shoes and on cinders.
"3:40 flat"
True!!!
Other options wrote:
Webb lost wrote:When Ryun ran 3:55 he beat the Olympic champion. When Webb ran 3:53 he finished in 5th place, 3-1/2 seconds buried by the race winner. So, no, Webb would never beat Ryun in a mile if they were the same age in HS and running in the same race.
This is assuming Olympic champions are all the same. They are not. Foolish assumption. Be careful when talking about El G.
Your assumption is foolish. You assume today's dope and gray-zone drugs were always available.
Webb lost to El G in Webb's HS record race. That fact stands in the race results. Until the results are officially changed they stand as they are.
Other options wrote:
Webb lost wrote:When Ryun ran 3:55 he beat the Olympic champion. When Webb ran 3:53 he finished in 5th place, 3-1/2 seconds buried by the race winner. So, no, Webb would never beat Ryun in a mile if they were the same age in HS and running in the same race.
This is assuming Olympic champions are all the same. They are not. Foolish assumption. Be careful when talking about El G.
Your assumption is foolish. You assume today's dope and gray-zone drugs were always available.
Webb lost to El G in Webb's HS record race. That fact stands in the race results. Until the results are officially changed they stand as they are.
^...agree. But I'll say 3:51.5 in HS and 3:47.5 open
HRE wrote:
I'm not sure he'd get under 4:00. I can't imagine any coach would have trained him like he did what with all the concerns about overtraining.
first, to answer your question, i think likely 3:52-53 for high school and sub 3:50 for his career best. similar to alan webb, but not 3:46 mile fastThe thing about Ryun that always gets me conflicted is that he ran so fast so early in his life....so fast that he apparently still holds the mile age-group record for 19 year-olds - can anyone confirm some east African hasn't eclipsed this time? (i think ryun has the 2-mile record as well, 8:25!, wtf)Here's the stats:he ran 3:55.3 in high school in 1965. The world record was 3:53.6.he was 1.7 seconds behind the world record.I've always just assumed the mile record was soft, because it would be like some high school kid running 3:44.83 in the mile today.was the record soft or was he a freak who matured super early? he did run 1:44, which is freakyHe 'only' got to 3:51, so it's safe to say his improvement curve was flattening and he wasn't going to get to the mid 3:40's at any point of his career.there is so much speculation on Ryun, which really isn't very interesting to me, but is his high school time equivalent to someone running 3:44 today?also interesting to note, Alan Webb seemed to be an early maturer too, but his best year was 2007 where he ran 1:43, 3:30, and 3:46, all those times run within 22 days!6 years after graduating high school.....
shruth wrote:
With the track improvement, spikes and diet/training improvements what would he run in modern times? I think around 3:52 or so
i don't get it. wrote:
there is so much speculation on Ryun, which really isn't very interesting to me, but is his high school time equivalent to someone running 3:44 today?
shruth wrote:
With the track improvement, spikes and diet/training improvements what would he run in modern times? I think around 3:52 or so
No, 3:48ish, and topping out 3:45ish. Much closer to the WR than 3:52. Faster than Webb, but not by that much; about 1 second career-wise. Webb with the better improvement post high-school.
You may be right... wrote:
Let's see worse shoes (probably about 5 pounds in his early years), cinder, dirt, clay, or grass tracks, extremely different training philosophy from today, etc.
5 lb shoes? Where the f*ck are you getting that from? Do you realize how heavy that is?
Also to Ventolin: the temperature for that Doha 1500 is always 90+ yet it often produces the fastest times of the year outside of Monaco. There've been quite a few sub-3:30 clockings in Doha despite 95 degree temps, hell Yenew Alamirew ran 7:27 for 3k there! So I really don't know what you're talking about when you say the heat costs the athletes 4 seconds. It always seems to me like you bend reality to conform to your existing notions rather than the other way around.
You think Ryun could have run 3:45?! stop it.Alan Webb and Steve Cram are the only white people to ever run under 3:47. Cram was a 1:42 800m runner, Webb, 1:43What make you think some corn-fed high school freak could run 3:45 based on a 3:51 best mile?You probably think Jesse Owens could run a 9.2 today too, don't you?yeeesh
3:47ish wrote:
i don't get it. wrote:there is so much speculation on Ryun, which really isn't very interesting to me, but is his high school time equivalent to someone running 3:44 today?
shruth wrote:
With the track improvement, spikes and diet/training improvements what would he run in modern times? I think around 3:52 or so
No, 3:48ish, and topping out 3:45ish. Much closer to the WR than 3:52. Faster than Webb, but not by that much; about 1 second career-wise. Webb with the better improvement post high-school.
Jim Ryun held the world junior record in the mile from 1966 - 1997.
Still #9 all time.
http://www.iaaf.org/records/toplists/middle-long/one-mile/outdoor/men/u20
What? How ignorant can you be? Very ignorant. You think Ryun couldn't run sub 3:45!!!! You are purely ignorant. Completely lacking of knowledge about running. An embarrassing, no account, hobby-jogger, with a 20+ minute 5k PR.
i don't get it. wrote:
You think Ryun could have run 3:45?! stop it.
Alan Webb and Steve Cram are the only white people to ever run under 3:47. Cram was a 1:42 800m runner, Webb, 1:43
What make you think some corn-fed high school freak could run 3:45 based on a 3:51 best mile?
You probably think Jesse Owens could run a 9.2 today too, don't you?
yeeesh
3:47ish wrote:No, 3:48ish, and topping out 3:45ish. Much closer to the WR than 3:52. Faster than Webb, but not by that much; about 1 second career-wise. Webb with the better improvement post high-school.
Well since Jim Ryun ran 3:39 on dirt in 1964 (equivalent to a 3:56 mile) then that would be a straight-up 3:52 mile on a modern track. Factor in modern shoes and training ideas, then I would put him safely at 3:50 in HS.
Also remember also that his 3:55 HS mile was run the day after a 4:11 qualifying race.
wow. everything you wrote is not true. literally everything. if you can prove one of those things, I'd love to hear it.i know as much as everyone else, because Jim Ryun only ran 3:51. Let that sink it. Ol' Jimmy Ryun will tell you that himself.El G ran 3:43 in 1999, does that mean in 2048 he would have been able to run 3:37?! literally everything you have said is false.so, keep speculating, because it'll never be proven.the hard part about your speculation is that you've offered no facts or even a shred of compelling argumentation. just screaming and waving.i love the conviction with which you hold your fictional stance though. cute
u don't get it. wrote:
What? How ignorant can you be? Very ignorant.
You think Ryun couldn't run sub 3:45!!!! You are purely ignorant. Completely lacking of knowledge about running. An embarrassing, no account, hobby-jogger, with a 20+ minute 5k PR.
i don't get it. wrote:You think Ryun could have run 3:45?! stop it.
Alan Webb and Steve Cram are the only white people to ever run under 3:47. Cram was a 1:42 800m runner, Webb, 1:43
What make you think some corn-fed high school freak could run 3:45 based on a 3:51 best mile?
You probably think Jesse Owens could run a 9.2 today too, don't you?
yeeesh