Ouray chalet wrote:
Can you imagine what kind of other works legend he would have become had he won the 1500, and then beat the shoeless bikila on the cobbled streets of Rome?!
Interesting to speculate .... but Bikila was a phenomenal athlete.
Ouray chalet wrote:
Can you imagine what kind of other works legend he would have become had he won the 1500, and then beat the shoeless bikila on the cobbled streets of Rome?!
Interesting to speculate .... but Bikila was a phenomenal athlete.
This is great news Judy. Thank you for the information.
I found Be Fit! Or Be Damned on my grandmother's bookshelf when I was 10 years old. The same copy is on my bookshelf today 47 years later. I also purchased Middle Distance Running in high school.
His stride stuff was off, but almost all of his other ideas were right on and developed in the 1950's. He had the concepts of aerobic base training, specific race pace work, hills, weight training, the importance of mental strength, natural diet, and lifelong fitness. An inspirational and eccentric nutcase who was 60 years ahead of his time.
He even lifted heavy weights and ran races from 1 mile up to 100 miles in his 50s and 60s, including a sub 3 hour marathon.
There is a picture on the cover of my book of Cerutty sprinting up a steep sand dune in Australia...leading...and ahead of the great Herb Elliot.
That is my kind of coach.
rjm33 wrote:
This is great news Judy. Thank you for the information.
I found Be Fit! Or Be Damned on my grandmother's bookshelf when I was 10 years old. The same copy is on my bookshelf today 47 years later. I also purchased Middle Distance Running in high school.
His stride stuff was off, but almost all of his other ideas were right on and developed in the 1950's. He had the concepts of aerobic base training, specific race pace work, hills, weight training, the importance of mental strength, natural diet, and lifelong fitness. An inspirational and eccentric nutcase who was 60 years ahead of his time.
He even lifted heavy weights and ran races from 1 mile up to 100 miles in his 50s and 60s, including a sub 3 hour marathon.
There is a picture on the cover of my book of Cerutty sprinting up a steep sand dune in Australia...leading...and ahead of the great Herb Elliot.
That is my kind of coach.
Thanks for the post .... my husband's original copies would be a similar age to the editions you describe. Their rarity and continuing interest encouraged us to republish (with permission). The steep sand dune would have been at Portsea. My husband recalls Cerutty telling him not to stop to help a boy who had passed out. It was hard training. And yes, he continued to compete as he got older.
He told him not to stop to help a boy who had passed out???
Let me check my post.
It is still OK because I did use the word "nutcase" in my description of him.
Oh boy, that was a close one.
rjm33 wrote:
He told him not to stop to help a boy who had passed out???
Let me check my post.
It is still OK because I did use the word "nutcase" in my description of him.
Oh boy, that was a close one.
Thanks for the humorous response. You brought a smile to my face. To reassure you, there weren't any fatalities. My husband also said they tried to loaf while running on the beach at Portsea by running on the hard sand instead of the soft, but Percy was a wake up to that ploy!
He actually tried to run on flat, hard sand instead of soft, steep, uphill sand... with Cerutty there?
What happened when Cerutty found out?
Wait just a second Judy. If your husband actually trained under Percy Cerutty, you need to get him on this forum to post some great stories from his time with him.
Tell him to stop being so lazy and post some stories here. Lots of people would love them. I will give you 72 hours to complete your mission.
..........Go Judy Hinz!.........
Judy Hinz wrote:
Not Percy wrote:What does your husband have to say about what Landy and other "Stotans" shared with the world concerning Cerutty?
About the way Cerutty treated Landy and his (Landy's) parents? And how he lied to the press.
About the way Cerutty took credit for Landy's results when Landy was a self-taught athlete who took guidance from the likes of Zátopek?
I asked my husband to respond to your assertions here and while he acknowledged that Cerutty was a difficult and irrational man at times, it was the more sensitive athlete who did not respond to his philosophies. Landy trained with Cerutty early on in his career but found Percy's approach and 'win at all costs' mentality not to his liking. Peter has no knowledge of any mistreatment of Landy's parents but Percy could be very blunt in his dealings with people. He was no diplomat.
From Peter's own experience he remembers Percy's wife Nancy was the one who often acted as a moderating influence, particularly with young athletes who had only recently been exposed to Percy.
Percy was always good at making claims about his role in an athlete's success but this in no way, in Peter's opinion, diminishes the value of his training philosophies. He was a man ahead of his time.
Thank you, Judy!
Judy...just 2 more things:
1) Congratulations! You are the first female to ever post at this forum.
2) Warning!!! Judy. You must not go to any other threads at this forum.
Judy Hinz wrote:
rjm33 wrote:He told him not to stop to help a boy who had passed out???
Let me check my post.
It is still OK because I did use the word "nutcase" in my description of him.
Oh boy, that was a close one.
Thanks for the humorous response. You brought a smile to my face. To reassure you, there weren't any fatalities. My husband also said they tried to loaf while running on the beach at Portsea by running on the hard sand instead of the soft, but Percy was a wake up to that ploy!
Judy,
major kudos to you and your husband for taking this initiative.
I read some of Percy's books as a kid, and really enjoyed them.
You know that age and era when a young runner just ate up anything he or she could find to read on running.
The Four Minute Mile. Cerruty. 4 Million Footsteps. Jogging. Aerobics. more...
rjm33 wrote:
Judy...just 2 more things:
1) Congratulations! You are the first female to ever post at this forum.
2) Warning!!! Judy. You must not go to any other threads at this forum.
1) Thanks. Really, the first female. I didn't realise this was the preserve of blokes
2) Other threads. Ah I haven't looked actually but I'll take your advice.
Peter's stories:
OK, chapter 1:
As a budding 16 year old middle distance schoolboy athlete totally in awe of Herb Elliott's achievements and especially the Rome Olympics performance, Peter decided to write to Percy Cerutty and ask if he could come and train for a period over the Christmas school vacation (Australia has long holidays then because it is summer). Nancy replied setting out the fees. Peter did not come from a well to do family so he had to earn the money for the travel from Sydney and for the fees. He did this by getting a job in Sydney city after school selling the afternoon newspapers - there were two at the time (none now).
That's how it started.
Chapter 2: To come - who was there at the time, what they got up to .....
I have already said several times on this site that I consider Cerutty to be a genius whose basic approach to running is still fundamentally correct. But having said that there are things that can be weighed in the scales against him.
1) He was a self publicist with a pretty large ego and did claim credit, in part or in whole, for the achievements of athletes that in reality he had little to do with. In his defence it has to be remembered that he was trying to run a full time training camp (after 1959) and he needed an income from somewhere. He had to get athletes to come to Portsea otherwise the whole venture would fall.
2) His books do contain some statements that can, at best, be regarded as questionable. But every book by every coach I have read contains similar statements - from titles published in the 1950s by Stamphl and Lydiard to modern texts by Daniels and Martin & Coe.
3) After Rome in 1960 he had few, if any successes, certainly on the international scene. The great Australian runner of the 1960s, Ron Clarke, had nothing to do with him and indeed echoed many of the criticisms of Percy that have been aired in this thread. He seems to have very few "disciples" in current day running unlike, say, Lydiard whose influence is openly acknowledged by masses of athletes and coaches.
But having said all that, these books should be read by every athlete and coach. Cerutty regarded himself as a teacher rather than a coach and he taught a philosophy of life of which striving for athletic excellence was merely a part. That is why so many athletes broke with him; it wasn't just about turning up to training once or twice a day and doing what the coach said. It was about living a life in a certain way, adopting certain attitudes, confronting challenges head on. This was a tough road to travel but when you got an individual willing to accept Percy and adopt the lifestyle the results were pretty amazing. Look at Elliott in action for proof of this!
mark b wrote:
This was a tough road to travel but when you got an individual willing to accept Percy and adopt the lifestyle the results were pretty amazing. Look at Elliott in action for proof of this!
Or, more importantly, when you got an individual who could stay in one piece.
I recall Cerutty saying one should run like horses run, or with a canter, and he actually suggesting different stride lengths for each side. And not off by an inch or two, either, but more like differing by feet.
I pretty much tossed whatever I was reading at that point.
KG toasted wrote:
I recall Cerutty saying one should run like horses run, or with a canter, and he actually suggesting different stride lengths for each side. And not off by an inch or two, either, but more like differing by feet.
I pretty much tossed whatever I was reading at that point.
Are you kidding?
It takes some practice. I spent over a month practicing a modified Cerutty animal stride form before it felt comfortable.
Here is a video of an early practice session:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm4Xj_5bslgThe early sessions were more awkward feeling.
I've commented on other post over the years about my association with Percy.
I never met him in person, but we corresponded regularly for a two year period before his death in 1975. At his invitation, I made arrangements to travel to Australia after graduation. Percy, unfortunately, passed away as my travel plans were completed. I spent, almost 7 years in Australia, working with many coaches and a number of top athletes. I had a very good relationship with Albie thomas and others who trained with Cerutty.
There is no question in my mind that Percy was a genius. An ecdentric genius, but a genius none the less. As another poster said, all the great coaches had aspects of their training that have since been proven wrong. As far as stride length and stride frequency, most have interpreted Percy wrong.