Why cant I improve my 800m?

formerD1 wrote:

Sort of right, but not quite.

800m is all about speed. None of the current crop of elite 800m runners do much true endurance training. At most they are running 30mpw max. 1200m intervals are too long, even for a miler. Maybe you'll do them once in a while, but distances between 200m-600m should be your bread and butter as an 800m runner.

Whats the name of the world record holder in the 800m?

Whos the multiple US champion at 800 with a silver medal from world champs 2013 in 800m?

Whats the name of current world indoor champion at 800m?

Gotta Go Fast wrote:

Kid, you're doing it all wrong.

1. You gotta work on your 100m speed. Everybody knows that in order to run a fast 800, you have to have a good 100m time. Look at Nick Willis, he can run a 1:46 and he has 11.11 100m speed.

2. You gotta go out suuper hard. It's a little known physiological fact that you can go as hard as you want in the first 200m, and there will be no lactic buildup, just be careful loosen up the gas pedal after that, and cruise for the next 200m. Look at Boris Berian, the 2016 800 world champ, his first 200 was by far the fastest, and he WON the race!

Buddah Bing Boom. Case closed. Follow these hot tips and you're going to go far, kid.

1 = Nick Willis does.....not.....have 11.11 100m speed.

2 = Ridiculous and flat out wrong. go hard for the first 100m. What you are talking about is the "free energy" from creatin phosphat, and that does not last as long as 200m.

The first 200m is usually the fastest mate.

I'm pretty similar actually, I can do 10 x 300 in about 49-50.5 but my 800 PR is a 2:15. Another workout I did was 14 x 400 in 71AVG. I'm in the same boat as you.

Yeah that never seems to work tbh. You'll blow up with 200 to go and I do that as well. Get out hard and relax until 300 to go. Once you hit 200 you kick like crazy. I usually relax behind the leaders and let them dictate the pace. Even splits are the best way.

I am glad so many of you are so terrible at coaching the 800. Makes my job easier.

You stated, "I've done sessions which should point to a much quicker personal best."

9 x300 metres with 90 seconds to 2 minutes recovery should point to 800 metres race results. Your 10 x 300 metres, ave., 51.5 seems to reflect your 800 metres current success.

Good luck!

David Rudisha. He runs something like 35 mpw in the off-season and something like 25mpw in season.

Google "Rudisha mileage" and you can hear it from his own mouth or his coaches.

Thanks.

I ran a PR of 2:08 yesterday and what I did is come in at 61 which I wasn't trying to do but definitely relaxed the first 200, kind of picked up the next 100, relaxed coming into 400.. I kind of fell in the 500 but had a crazy kick where I caught a lot of people. My splits weren't good but I PR'd. The arms were a factor though I relaxed them until 300 where I was running like a sprinter. If you use your arms too much early in the race you'll struggle the last part of the race. Focus on TURNOVER

Do you do any very short recovery sessions? 12x200 with 90 seconds recovery may be hard on the last few reps but in no way does it mimic racing stresses. Try,

2x2x400 with 30 seconds between each 200 and 5 minutes between sets &

2x2x400 with 60 seconds between each 400 and 5-7 minutes between sets.

Aim at goal pace on each run ie if trying to break 2:00 each 200 in a shade under 30 seconds, each 400 a shade under 60 seconds.

You need to add some longer reps 1km - 1 mile your endurance is not there. A lot to consider as well:

Long run, hills circuit training, gently upping mileage

4x300m, 3 minutes recovery between 42 and 44 - waste of time neither one or the other. Either do 8 x 300m 100m job walk recovery for speed endurance. Or 4 x 300m 5 mins rest for speed

"David Rudisha. He runs something like 35 mpw in the off-season and something like 25mpw in season.Google "Rudisha mileage" and you can hear it from his own mouth or his coaches.Thanks"

There are three kinds of 800m runners:

1) 400/800

2) Pure 800

3) 800/1500

This kid does not have the speed or correct amount of muscle fibers to be an 400/800 guy. Very well about Rudisha, I thought he did more like 80k. Though, do we know if he counts warm up cool downs etc..

Cruz 50-70 miles

Coe...

Symmonds (I know I know but still US champ for years)

Cram 70-80 miles

Kiprop

Makloufi

Rodal

Kipketer

You:

"800m is all about speed. None of the current crop of elite 800m runners do much true endurance training. At most they are running 30mpw max. 1200m intervals are too long, even for a miler. Maybe you'll do them once in a while, but distances between 200m-600m should be your bread and butter as an 800m runner."

None of the current crop att most running 30mpw? Thats just blatant wrong.

About 40 of the top 50 fastest 800m runners ever were better at 1500m than at 400m.

Its wrong to say low milage is what the best 800m runners do, its also wrong to say they do high milage. Moderate milage is what fits best with 800m runners. Theres plenty doing intervals up to 1200m for 800m runners. Among milers that very usual.

The Donger wrote:

I am glad so many of you are so terrible at coaching the 800. Makes my job easier.

+1

The poster mentioning arms is spot on. The first 500 should be with completely relaxed arms, back and shoulders. When you hit that second backstraight, GRADUALLY begin to go to the arms, still relaxed but with power on the downstroke. The final 100 is all on the arms, bringing the elbows through with power to keep knees up and turnover high.

The 10 300's in over 50 show its not tactics but lack of endurance & speed endurance which is the problem. Part of that is down to age but with 25 200m speed you should be able to do them well under 50.

Rudy Harbig wrote:

The poster mentioning arms is spot on. The first 500 should be with completely relaxed arms, back and shoulders. When you hit that second backstraight, GRADUALLY begin to go to the arms, still relaxed but with power on the downstroke. The final 100 is all on the arms, bringing the elbows through with power to keep knees up and turnover high.

Thanks and I totally agree!

The current crop is Rudisha, Amos, Berian, Tuka, Aman, Kszczot. Most are from the speed side and none even dabble with the 1500m as a result. Most are likely on fairly low mileage like Rudisha who does 60km a week in his base period, less in summer. Amos certainly will be on low mileage. The pure 800m regiment for an elite is quite different to the traditional 1500m+ style most know of a couple sessions a week plus easy mileage and some weights.

For the record, I don't think anyone should count warm ups and cool downs. Jogging a handful of laps at 10+ minutes per mile is not aerobic training. I know some long distance guys run a couple miles warm up and cool down but these speedy 800 guys just don't.

I do agree that long intervals are fine and utilised by nearly all 800m runners at all levels. 1200m maybe is a bit long but not unreasonably so. 1k or 800m reps are great for early season endurance.

Most of the fastest times ever set in the 800m are by speed guys. Kipketer and now Rudisha have led the way with the 800m becoming a long sprint. I'd expect the trend to continue really.

Metric Miler basically said what I wanted to say (i.e., that the current 800m trend is for former 400m guys dominating the field, and gone are the days of Coe et al).

But you do have a point - the OP's muscle fibers and body makeup is probably are not conducive to training like a pure 400m/800m runner. Maybe his body type will be more receptive to more mileage. But frankly, I doubt that as well.

The Kenyans pick their distance runners at an early age based on their 200m speed, since endurance can be taught but speed cannot. And 800m requires an abundance of speed.

If OP is set on the 800m, well increasing his mileage will only add more pain and tedium to his training schedule (I mean, who enjoys 10 mile aerobic training runs?), which may in fact actually make him slower by taking away what little speed he already has.

His other option (which I suggest) is lots of strength training, building muscle mass, losing fat, short fast intervals, etc. That sort of training is fun, is probably healthier, and obviously more physically attractive to the opposite sex. Better than starving yourself and spending 1 hour on the road alone running along at 7:30 pace.

I used to train with Nick back in the day. My 100m speed was about 12.4 (training and in spikes), and he was on par. Wouldn't be surprised if he clocked an 11.11 at some point down the road, since we never took the 100m speed tests that seriously.

you cannot improve your 200m ability. its impossible to sprint faster than the speed you are born with so move up to the marathon kid