To whoever wrote the 3:59 mile article on the front page...

Check the standard error of the mean and get back to us.

Pangolin wrote:

So you think that the NCAA just randomly picked a number that favored one guy (who, by the way, was already acclimated to the elevation where he ran the early time, so if anything his improvement at sea level should have been minimal).

That still makes absolutely no sense. How altitude affects one guy does not tel you how it will affect another guy. Do you two really not understand that?[/quote]

Why is the reading comprehension on this website so bad? Do not quote me if you're going to post irrelevant stuff. I said nothing about the NCAA.

Nobody is saying that it is just as easy running at altitude compared to sea level. Conversions do not count for breaking barriers. He is not a sub 4 miler. The same goes for converted 1500m and 1600m races.

Every year same bs. Just let it go.

Other options wrote:

Every year same bs. Just let it go.

Agreed.

I witnessed this mile over the weekend and I also witnessed Pat Casey actually breaking the 4 minute mark at Montana State a few years back. Not quite as high, but more impressive.

Corona's mark should count toward NCAA's and obviously a facility record, but it should not be a school record. He ran 4:09. Conversions have not been consistent over the years. How old is the current system? Three, four years? It's not fair to compare his performance to years past.

In my mind it's OK that his DA time read sub 4 as everyone this year has the same chance at that NCAA conversion if they run at AFA...but as far as records are concerned his time is 4:09.

Big Sky wrote:

I witnessed this mile over the weekend and I also witnessed Pat Casey actually breaking the 4 minute mark at Montana State a few years back. Not quite as high, but more impressive.

Corona's mark should count toward NCAA's and obviously a facility record, but it should not be a school record. He ran 4:09. Conversions have not been consistent over the years. How old is the current system? Three, four years? It's not fair to compare his performance to years past.

In my mind it's OK that his DA time read sub 4 as everyone this year has the same chance at that NCAA conversion if they run at AFA...but as far as records are concerned his time is 4:09.

This is quite reasonable. Hope that he does break 4 at sea level as well.

Big Sky wrote:

I witnessed this mile over the weekend and I also witnessed Pat Casey actually breaking the 4 minute mark at Montana State a few years back. Not quite as high, but more impressive.

Corona's mark should count toward NCAA's and obviously a facility record, but it should not be a school record. He ran 4:09. Conversions have not been consistent over the years. How old is the current system? Three, four years? It's not fair to compare his performance to years past.

In my mind it's OK that his DA time read sub 4 as everyone this year has the same chance at that NCAA conversion if they run at AFA...but as far as records are concerned his time is 4:09.

That is the more difficult/interesting part of the issue, for sure. Obviously the NCAA must adjust times for nationals qualifying but what about school records? I don't know Corona and have never seen him run, but I for one will be surprised if he does not run similar times at sea level in the near future. I was there the day Pat Casey ran sub-4 unconverted at MSU (!! one of my favorite track experiences from the fan side), and also when Soratos broke through and ran the adjusted 3:56 right before he ran 3:55 at UW. I think I remember both of them basically saying they didn't think of themselves as 'a sub-4 miler' until crossing the line with the watch reading 3:xx. But both of them also basically knew their 5000' performance was that good. I could be wrong.

I was running a workout on that track after work today (I work at MSU) and was looking at the record board while I changed shoes. The official school record is Pat Casey's altitude adjusted 3:54 (which is the 3:59 he ran on MSU's banked track, which is now gone), not Christian Soratos' unconverted 3:55 at sea level. But Soratos DOES have the outdoor 1500 and 800 records from low elevation races. My impression is that runners at schools like MSU don't see any problem with this.

At schools where kids get at best a couple of shots for great times at sea level interspersed with a lot of grinding out high elevation races, the best (fairest) policy for records is not obvious. I notice a footnote on the MSU record board says that all times over 3000 are altitude adjusted... just like any straightaway time with >2 m/s wind is not allowed. Seems logical to me.

* should add that I am not a coach at MSU, I'm a rando professor who happens to run, so none of the preceding s^$t is 'official policy',