If this doesn't sink Coe nothing will

rekrunner wrote:

So if I understand all the press correctly:

- The secret plan was to ban the athletes from competition, and only delay the already overdue announcement until after the World Championships.

- They proposed to use Coe and Chime Sports Marketing, but apparently this was not followed up.

- Coe was unaware of this exchange.

This doesn't seem like an unreasonable exchange between marketing people, and Davies makes it clear that the athletes should not compete.

What are the reporting requirements for banned athletes?

While this works against transparency, it doesn't seem like Navies proposed anything scandalous.

How could this sink Coe?

I agree. I just checked out the front page today. I had seen headlines in the press on twitter and what not and was like, "This is going to be big."

Then i opened up the front page and read the QOD and was like, "That's it? That's not bad. Why in God's name would anyone marketing guy want the positives to be announced right before the Worlds started?"

I remember being at Worlds in 2013 and realizing that a ton of top Russians weren't competing and wondered why. I assumed the Russians just didn't want them to get popped. Now we know they'd already been popped.

Moving forward, clearly stuff needs to come out immediately. The sport should be eagerly publishing almost celebrating every doping positive the moment they learn about it.

Right, it does not look great but it's not quite the smoking gun to destroy Coe. Yet it does show that Davies and Coe did work closely with Diack on handling results. Diack is now accused of soliciting bribes to delay or cover up positives. The IAAF needs to move to transparency ASAP. Coe needs to change the tone.

1. Get all positives out ASAP.

2. Have independent groups review ALL doping records and issue reports.

We need to know more about the Diack era. We can't simply accept that the Russian athletes are the only ones who got special treatment - we need to hear about famous Brits, Americans, Africans nd Jamaicans too.

Davis has temporarily stood aside whilst he is investigated by the ethics committee

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/35163980?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

C'mon Rojo,

The whole thing stinks of systemic coverup. These boards are full of rumors that so and so's "injury" is a hush-hush doping penalty. If the IAAF was so concerned about the media reaction to Russian positives imagine what they would do to cover up a positive result for a Western athlete.

I mean hypothetically speaking, the IAAF, along with WADA, might turn a blind eye to hundreds of suspicious test results, including dozens of world and Olympic medalists. Then, when those results are leaked by a whistleblower, two former British track stars with immense media and political power might personally vouch for another British superstar implicated in the scandal. Then, one of those former British superstars might assume control of the IAAF at the same time IAAF experts release a report officially explaining away three highly abnormal blood test results for the other British superstar.

But luckily, that's just a hypothetical...

The Conspiracy wrote:

^^ This. There are many people in the world who could lead the IAAF out of this mess, so it's not like Coe is the only hope. It may be unfair if he is innocent, but sometimes you just have to take one for the team.

Does the IAAF want to elect someone to do that? Or, more of the same corruption under a different leader?

My guess is on the latter, not the former.

SwissFamilyKnobinson wrote:

And Seb's response via his lawyers:

https://twitter.com/hajoseppelt/status/679064969749651457

I would say unbelievable, but this is wholly believable from the hideous arrogant man running our sport...

Coe can claim all he wants that he didn't know any of what was transpiring re the Russians, re Lamine Diack, and re Diack's son taking "bribes".

But do you have faith in the deputy head of IAAF (as he was at the time) NOT knowing any of this. A competent and ethical deputy head of IAAF would know about all these scandals.

Also, what about the long-time US delegate to IAAF (pre Hightower) Bob Hersh???? surely he heard some gossip during late night cocktail sessions. Or was the "old boy network" working in over-drive?

Rojo, explain why Hightower was so anxious (that she circumvented normal processes) to get the US IAAF delegate gig?

Why hasn't Bob Hersh??? sued USA T&F over his ouster?

I sure would like to hear Bob Hersh's?????take on all this.

Nice hypothetical. I want to think the best but ......

Nice commentary.

For me, the "leak" that is most damning from Coe, is his quote not too long back where he essentially said "Well, what did you want us to do when most of these cultures are corrupt, change their cultures?"

Talk about being Lord and out of touch.

He's been an insider too long, and not only are all "those" cultures where greasing the palm is expected, Coe at this point as been an insider to know so much more than he is willing to tell.

Daviesgate wrote:

As I said earlier, I'm still holding onto the idea that Coe ultimately has the good of athletics as his default position. Whether that is enough for him to retain the perceived credibility to move the organisation forward, I don't know.

Whatever happens now, he is going to get burned by the world's press. If he stays, he's corrupt and self-seeking (rather than tenacious and determined). If he goes, he's guilty or at the very least has something to hide (rather than recognising he is tarnished goods, doing the decent thing and stepping aside).

Steve Ovett - if you are reading this, take Seb out for a beer. God knows he could do with one (or several!).

I suspect anyone who still is a fan of Coe, supports Coe, or think Coe comes out of this clean, is dreaming.

Coe's career predates pro track and field, right? Likely he took appearance money, airline tickets, along with his father, under the table back then, right?

I am sure there are people here, still, barely, or in the past, who have been behind the curtain just enough at a Hilton here, or Ritz there, meet headquarters, to clearly know their is an elitists echelon behind the IAAF, and with more fire than smoke, and more smoke continually coming.

The IAAF needs to be disbanded, and some new organization formed, perhaps out of owners of DL meets.

Coe's hope is to somehow make it through unscathed, but the only way I can see that happening is with corruption behind the scenes continuing to be allowed.

What we've learned about "Dad" / Papa, is surely the tip of the Iceberg.

I don't know why not -- despite all the grilling in his British press and by British MP select committees, Coe hasn't yet been involved in any wrong-doing, so far as we know.Yet again, people are desperately attempting to associate him to a pseudo-scandal, this time with a private marketing e-mail exchange, which, if followed, would not be a scandal, but wasn't followed up anyway, and at no point in time was Coe notified or involved.Seppelt calls this the most explosive evidence of doping lies and coverup he has seen? This calls into question the quality of everything he has seen, his ability to assess what he has seen, and his ability to report on it objectively.

How is it a cover-up, if the proposal was to timely ban the athletes, but just delay the announcement for marketing reasons?Isn't the important thing that the "Russian skeleton" athletes would not be allowed to compete?What is the reporting requirement of bans for sports federations? Of course, more transparency is called for, but the lack of transparency is not the scandal, if the hidden events are proper.I'm not sure why your hypothetical includes WADA -- in 2003 and 2005, they were a new, unproven organization struggling to become relevant. They were aggressively pursuing to expose Lance in cycling. It seems like an odd-time to enter a counter-productive collusion with the IAAF, as busting a big name like Paula, if they could, would be a big step for WADA.Today, the WADA Independent commission is the last hope for an independent expert opinion that Paula's 3 suspicious values, collected with pre-2009 standards, actually form a long term suspicious profile of the likes that would be prosecuted under the ABP, as the IAAF and UKAD have already decided that there is nothing unusual, considering the circumstances.

He would have inside info wrote:

What did Linford say?

I thought we was cool?

Is Coe running IAAF like Lance running the cycling federation?

The thread title is true. This won't sink Coe. And nothing else will.

[quote]rekrunner wrote:

How is it a cover-up, if the proposal was to timely ban the athletes, but just delay the announcement for marketing reasons?

Isn't the important thing that the "Russian skeleton" athletes would not be allowed to compete?

What is the reporting requirement of bans for sports federations? Of course, more transparency is called for, but the lack of transparency is not the scandal, if the hidden events are proper.

I'm not sure why your hypothetical includes WADA -- in 2003 and 2005, they were a new, unproven organization struggling to become relevant. They were aggressively pursuing to expose Lance in cycling. It seems like an odd-time to enter a counter-productive collusion with the IAAF, as busting a big name like Paula, if they could, would be a big step for WADA.

Today, the WADA Independent commission is the last hope for an independent expert opinion that Paula's 3 suspicious values, collected with pre-2009 standards, actually form a long term suspicious profile of the likes that would be prosecuted under the ABP, as the IAAF and UKAD have already decided that there is nothing unusual, considering the circumstances.

It was a coverup for the entire Russian athletics program and by extension the reputation of the sport. The letter makes it clear that Davies is concerned that the sheer number of Russian positives would implicate the entire Russian team. We know now with near absolute certainty that the Russian athletes who replaced the popped athletes were indeed just as doped. A number of those Russian athletes won medals in 2013 as well. Delaying the announcement of the bans allowed what was a farce of a competition to proceed with the appearance of legitimacy.

As to my my hypothetical, I would just ask that you review the reports from the last year regarding what information WAdA/ IAAF had from 2002-2013 and what they did with it.

I do agree that the current version of WADA, our at least Dick Pound's pending report, is the sport's best hope for true transparency and accountability.

As to the conclusions of IAAFs experts regarding PR's test results I think occham's razor is always at play.

I'm a big Seb Coe fan and have been for many years but this is NOT GOOD for him. It seems completely unlikely that Seb didn't know about any of this.

Two sayings apply here:

"Guilty by association"

and

"Perception is greater than truth"

Seb is going to have to fight his A$$ OFF!!!

I agree, however there are so many layers of corruption here that a change in leadership will not resolve the issue.

So do I get this right?

Coe has this media company that takes on bribes. Errr, does marketing to reduce transparency. Errr, how do I make this sound less evil?

No other media agency is menthioned, Coe's is the one name on the table. Never used for bribes errr cover-up errr channeling attention to other causes?

I doubt this is the worst email that was found whn someone hacked the heck out of IAAF. Or, do we have the same insider here who pulled the doping files? Little reason to think it ends here.

oh please.. Coe is the man for the job. And replace him with whom? Davies is a good guy among a collection of shady, creepy characters. Apparently many people think pro sports is apples and sunshine but the truth is something we can't seem to handle. IAAF corruption is mini compared to practically every sport on the planet, thus my confusion to see the burner turned to max considering this latest series of foul play.

Can we figure out a way to put this aside and play ball when the season starts? Trust me, gymnastics, ice skating, and all the other pro federations have really dirty dealings. This IAAF stuff is small potatoes. If you only knew...

ps.. we need Coe and the influence of British corporate connections to drive the sport forward. Most of you will disagree (especially Americans) but the sport has prospered since Diack took over from the late but arrogantly corrupt Primo Nebiolo. Nebiolo took over from the equally corrupt Adriaan Paulen.

The operational side of the Nebiolo, Paulen days compared to the present seems almost primitive in retrospect.. Now, after a fairly good Diack term (perhaps the best IAAF President in history) I am expecting the Coe years to really shine once this latest scandal declines..