Has to be at least be a 56, for most people 53-54 minimum required.
Has to be at least be a 56, for most people 53-54 minimum required.
You all realize that a minimum time is a time that you would have to run slower than, right?
What about runners with reasonable strength? (14-high 5k/30 mins 10k)
I managed to break 2:00 for the 800m aged 15 but not without several near misses e.g. 2:00:3, 2:00:15 etc.
When I managed to finally crack it in one of my final races of the season, I ran a high 1:58 which I was delighted with. I think at that time, I could run around 54:00 for the 400m but I could also do a pretty decent 1500m in 4:08 so had a fair amount of endurance.
Therefore, I would say that unless you had very, very good endurance then the minimum needed to break 2:00 would be a best of about 56:00. Even then, this isn't leaving much of a cushion as I would recommend a 1st lap of 58:00 followed by a second lap of 60:00 to offer some kind of buffer zone. Remember the 2nd lap of an 800m is almost always run slower and is very differently to the 1st lap i.e. you are running in massive oxygen debt. However 58:00 to a runner with a 400m best of 56:00 will feel pretty sharp and you may find yourself dying in the second lap unless your conditioning is sublime.
As a great example, Seb Coe could run 400m in about 46:50 and his best for 800m was 1:41:7 so he had a buffer zone of about 9 seconds but then he was arguably the best middle distance of all time!
Best of luck,
Mike
I was once told by my college coach that in his current shape (at that time) his 400 best would be 61, then in a subsequent sentence said he could probably run 1:59 for 800. So figure that into any calculations.....
I'm sorry but these stories of people running twice their best 400m for 800m are exaggerated. Nobody has ever run 2:00 when their absolute best 400m effort was only 60s. Impossible.
Likewise nobody has run 1:56 whilst only able to run 57/58. It's just too slow.
I did a workout once with 3 all out 400s and 5 min rest in between some moderate tempo intervals...so essentially a full recovery. I only ran 55s on all 3 and I was ALL OUT and a few weeks later ran 1:57 pr in the 4x8 at KU relays...so probably a 1:58.
Metric Miler wrote:
I'm sorry but these stories of people running twice their best 400m for 800m are exaggerated. Nobody has ever run 2:00 when their absolute best 400m effort was only 60s. Impossible.
Likewise nobody has run 1:56 whilst only able to run 57/58. It's just too slow.
I couldn't agree more even accounting for the effect of momentum, it's impossible but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story huh ;)
areusure? wrote:
I did a workout once with 3 all out 400s and 5 min rest in between some moderate tempo intervals...so essentially a full recovery. I only ran 55s on all 3 and I was ALL OUT and a few weeks later ran 1:57 pr in the 4x8 at KU relays...so probably a 1:58.
5 minutes of rest between all-out 400s is not full recovery. Besides, those 400s were in a workout, not a race situation. I bet your real 400 PR would be 52, which is consistent with 1:57-1:58 for 800.
Bonkers wrote:
Has to be at least be a 56, for most people 53-54 minimum required.
this seems to be the consensus opinion. Someone with a strong endurance background coming down to 400 and a short sprinter with a 54 might reasonable expect to run about 2;00 after a reasonable amount of 800m oriented training.
Will there be outliers and exception to these numbers? Of course because they are generalizations. My opinion is 56 might indicate a sub 2:00 potential and the shorter the 400 time the more the chances grow.
No Rudisha sadly for me, as a great fan of Kipketer, does not differentiate at all. Grrrr.
Exactly. Even without the fast start required in a race, the best times for 800m require a positive split and that requires a fast absolute 400m time. Look at the fastest ever. Rudisha, Wilson, Amos. They are 45 second 800m men and thats what u need to go through 49 and bits and keep going.
Would it be probable for a HS runner to go from 63 to 56 from now to track? What would be the way to do this?
Depends at which point they are starting from. Its possible if they havent had much anaerobic interval training or training at that pace. So thats what u have to do. Train at that rhythm and lactate level. Also 400m is easily improved by just racing a few times and learning our to pace yourself/oneself.
Strength runner... wrote:
What about runners with reasonable strength? (14-high 5k/30 mins 10k)
Those guys probably can run 53-54s 400's already most likely on strength so they will likely be capable of sub 2:00. Running 26-27 splits for 400 or 28-29-30-31 for 800 is something which sub 15/sub 30 guys should be able to do in a max effort those shorter distances. Sub 15 means they are likely 4:15-4:20 milers, which should put them around 1:58 capabilities regardless.
Metric Miler wrote:
I'm sorry but these stories of people running twice their best 400m for 800m are exaggerated. Nobody has ever run 2:00 when their absolute best 400m effort was only 60s. Impossible.
Likewise nobody has run 1:56 whilst only able to run 57/58. It's just too slow.
So now you're saying distance does count?
Hey, I ran a sub 2:00 in the 800 meters during my Sophomore year in High school. A low 54 and anywhere in the range of a 53 in the 400 meters would get you under the 2:00 barrier. I went 57 and ended with a 1:58. Make sure you get out fast and relax with no tense in the body. Learn to run loose and as soon as you feel the lactic acid, start pushing. I would also recommend doing strides year round. I came from a soccer background and no mileage. If you want to run a serious 400m and 800m my advice to you is to run year round and join cross country. Be consistent in your training and stay healthy. Good luck!
I'm afraid I don't understand what you are talking about.
Those times should be a slam dunk to run sub 2.
Strength runner... wrote:
What about runners with reasonable strength? (14-high 5k/30 mins 10k)
Sample size of one for a 4:24/9:35 3200m type:
Senior year of high school
Early season lots of 56.xx --> 2:02 - 2:05 efforts
Late season 54.8 --> 1:58 open
Freshman year of college 1:55 off more mileage (60 mpw)