Which is harder to achieve: a 300 lb bench press, or a 5:00 mile?

BSalert wrote:

Sally V wrote:

I will stick to my guns. 225 is nothing special. You give me someone who can do 225 and I pretty much guarantee I can get that guy lifting 300 given a year. Shoot 6 months.

Bullshit. You're right that 225 is nothing special, especially for an athletic, non-runner in their 20s. 300 raw with correct form however is very good. The guys at my gym who can do that for their max are serious lifter most of which are prob 200lbs.

I was a runner all through college and ran 4:10 so am by no means a big guy. I've since been lifting semi-serious for two years and am pretty much maxed out at 235 weighing 165. No way in hell I can sniff 300 within 6 months like you say. Not even in a year.

Do you just bench? I see guys benching and they never improve. You eat good diet? Do you do heavy seated behind-the-neck miltary presses? The bench press is a simple movement. I can't believe if 300 pounds is your goal you can't achieve ESPECIALLY working with very strong guys. A Canadian guy Greg Kovak could do 10 x 500 pounds behind-the-neck military presses. Those are tons harder than bench. Someone can't do 300 on bench which is lifting few inches off chest.

BSalert wrote:

Sally V wrote:

I will stick to my guns. 225 is nothing special. You give me someone who can do 225 and I pretty much guarantee I can get that guy lifting 300 given a year. Shoot 6 months.

Bullshit. You're right that 225 is nothing special, especially for an athletic, non-runner in their 20s. 300 raw with correct form however is very good. The guys at my gym who can do that for their max are serious lifter most of which are prob 200lbs.

I was a runner all through college and ran 4:10 so am by no means a big guy. I've since been lifting semi-serious for two years and am pretty much maxed out at 235 weighing 165. No way in hell I can sniff 300 within 6 months like you say. Not even in a year.

How can you "max out" at 235? I had 2 running mates - both ran not great for 5k roads - about 16:15. But better than most. One guy ran best of only 4:45. The other sub-4 at 17. Some people made to run fast mile but 90% not.

Sally V wrote:

[quote]BSalert wrote:

How can you "max out" at 235? I had 2 running mates - both ran not great for 5k roads - about 16:15. But better than most. One guy ran best of only 4:45. The other sub-4 at 17. Some people made to run fast mile but 90% not.

He ran a sub-4 mile at age 17? That's a pretty short list.

Sally V wrote:

How can you "max out" at 235?...

Why wouldn't someone max out at 235? Everyone maxes out at some level.

Sally V wrote:

Do you just bench? I see guys benching and they never improve. You eat good diet? Do you do heavy seated behind-the-neck miltary presses? The bench press is a simple movement. I can't believe if 300 pounds is your goal you can't achieve ESPECIALLY working with very strong guys. A Canadian guy Greg Kovak could do 10 x 500 pounds behind-the-neck military presses. Those are tons harder than bench. Someone can't do 300 on bench which is lifting few inches off chest.

1) his prs were essentially fake, all were done on smith machines. You can military press way more on a smith machine.

2) his max MP was 500 on a smith machine

3) he took tons of steroids

4) he weighed 420 pounds out of BB competition weight

Obvious Counter-Question wrote:

Sally V wrote:

How can you "max out" at 235?...

Why wouldn't someone max out at 235? Everyone maxes out at some level.

That's more than most guys at the gym lift, but only about half of the average of LR posters.

Most chicks would be far more impressed by a 300 lb bench.

They couldn't care less how fast skinny fat dudes could run a mile.

BS... wrote:

sportinnz wrote:

From my experience the 300 lb bench was much, much harder

I think 15 - 30 year old fit and healthy males who have some talent for running could run a 5:00 mile. For most in this group a few sessions of running and learning to pace should be sufficient

That, of course, is absolute nonsense. You read this BS all the time on LR.

I think 15 - 30 year old fit and healthy males who have some talent for running a 5:00 mile off a few sessions of running and learning to pace could run a 5:00 mile.

Obvious Counter-Question wrote:

Why wouldn't someone max out at 235? Everyone maxes out at some level.

He's talking about a physical limit not a personal best. If 235 is the most that guy can do at 165 lbs bodyweight then he's doing something wrong.

Idj wrote:

Obvious Counter-Question wrote:

Why wouldn't someone max out at 235? Everyone maxes out at some level.

He's talking about a physical limit not a personal best. If 235 is the most that guy can do at 165 lbs bodyweight then he's doing something wrong.

Chart states that 165 lbs guys who can BP 255 are "Advanced" and those who can BP 320 are "ELITE"

Men's Health lists 1.5 times bodyweight for max BP as goal standard for male trying to achieve all around fitness/ strength.

1.5 times bodyweight for BP max seems to be roughly inline with what I've seen at non hardcore gyms. Obviously many can BP much, much more with serious gym time, up-diet, supplements, and maybe some 'roids but none of that is easy or cheap. The point is that for most 145lb to 175 lb guys, bench pressing 300 clean will take some serious work and is not guaranteed.

Two observations about about benching 300 from lifting site-

https://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/75-bench-press-tips-improve-max-strength

# 49

49) Use reasonable expectations. Most gym lifters never hit a 300 pound bench press. Even if you’re “only” adding 30-40 pounds to your bench press per year, this is still quality progress. Over the course of 5 years this will yield over a 150 pound boost to your one rep max. At some point you will stop seeing 5-10 pound bench increases every month. This is NOT a plateau. It is a normal, natural slowing.

https://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/strong-strength-standards-raw-natural-lifters

Before I move forward, here are some simple definitions for standards names.

Pro Strength - The very best of the best. Superhuman. Supreme strength. 330 Max BP at 165 lbs

Elite Strength - You should be extremely competitive at a National level powerlifting meet. 305 BP at 165 lbs.

Extremely Strong - You will be one of the top lifters at most local, natural powerlifting meets. Your strength levels land you in the top 1% of humanity.

250 Max BP at 165 lbs.

Very Strong - In the muscle building and strength training realm, this would be considered intermediate level strength. 225 Max BP at 165lbs.

Strong - Your lifts are around a 200 raw bench, 300 raw squat and 400 raw deadlift. This doesn't seem strong compared to powerlifting records, but you are still stronger than 90% of men walking the earth.

i laugh every time i read shit like this. "some talent" is doing an awful lot of work in this statement.

remember, an 18:00 3 miles maxes out the marine PT test! think about that...

i think many of you have no idea how far up the talent bell curve you are. i recall being forced annually to run cross country in P.E (i am from the UK) and it was amazing how some guys would run away from the rest of us within 500m, and most of them did nothing more than play football like the rest of us.

I have always been a runner. I first broke 5 minutes shortly after I turned 14 and did it every year until I was 29. Lot's of high school boys and some girls break 5, many more athletic high school boys could do it if picked up running seriously is college. Many athletic high school boys lift in high school then get more serious about it in college. I got serious about weight training the summer after my freshmen year of college. My main goal was to bench 300 lbs because both my dad and older brother had done it in the past. I finally achieved a 300 lb bench the summer after my junior year of college. The summer after my senior year of college I was at my strongest. I had benched 270 for 7 reps and weighed a little over 170 lbs. With that conditioning I ran a couple 800 time trials by myself in trainers to see what I could do. I remember running a 2:12 with a rather large negative split. In hindsight I wish I had contacted a fast friend and time trialed a mile because I believe I could have broken 5, but I didn't. I did bread 5 that year, but I would have weighed 160 and benched far less. I could cycle off lifting and creatine start running, and drop 10 lbs very quickly. All this being said I lifted at a large college rec center that was consistently packed with athletic men in their 20's. There were very few no matter size training with the heavy weights that my partner and I would. BTW, my partner was a college swimmer (sprints) and he time trialed a mile on the indoor track a couple times and got down to a 5:07. My opinion is that a 300 lb bench press is more difficult.

This entire thread should remove bench and add deadlift. Deads are the truest test of all around body strength. 5:00 mile or 400 lb deadlift?

Dead man wrote:

This entire thread should remove bench and add deadlift. Deads are the truest test of all around body strength. 5:00 mile or 400 lb deadlift?

Coincidentally, proficiency in the bench press and the deadlift can be largely attributed to arm length. Long arms = good deadlift. Short arms = good bench (generally).

T-Rex wrote:

Dead man wrote:

This entire thread should remove bench and add deadlift. Deads are the truest test of all around body strength. 5:00 mile or 400 lb deadlift?

Coincidentally, proficiency in the bench press and the deadlift can be largely attributed to arm length. Long arms = good deadlift. Short arms = good bench (generally).

This is exactly right. I have shorter arms. My bench was great. My deadlift was relatively poor. I also have a long torso and tight hamstrings, which eventually led to back surgery due to poor form and anatomical issues while deadlifting and squating.

T-Rex wrote:

Dead man wrote:

This entire thread should remove bench and add deadlift. Deads are the truest test of all around body strength. 5:00 mile or 400 lb deadlift?

Coincidentally, proficiency in the bench press and the deadlift can be largely attributed to arm length. Long arms = good deadlift. Short arms = good bench (generally).

The original question was on bench press specifically, not on the best measure of overall strength.

I am long and lanky and always thought I'd be terrible at bench pressing, but I'm also big and fat and, as I said before, I bench pressed 300 within a few months of starting at age 51. I haven't worked on squats or deadlift much, but I suck at both. I have super long legs, stiff hips, and am old and out of shape (I'm sure it's the long legs though). I was not far from a 400 lb deadlift when I was working on it for a few months, but it's never felt smooth and my squat is horrible.

elephino wrote:

Sally V wrote:

[quote]BSalert wrote:

How can you "max out" at 235? I had 2 running mates - both ran not great for 5k roads - about 16:15. But better than most. One guy ran best of only 4:45. The other sub-4 at 17. Some people made to run fast mile but 90% not.

He ran a sub-4 mile at age 17? That's a pretty short list.

Yes, he used to be on all-time 1500 junior list.

I'd say the 5:00 mile is more difficult.

I'm admittedly a hobby jogger, but I trained at 70MPW for several years, and the fastest I ever got in the mile was a 5:10. I probably could have broken 5:00, if I had kept training, but I got injured, and haven't even sniffed 5:10 for years. In my group of hobby jogger friends, I know one guy that has broken 5 for the mile, and most of these guys are putting in 60+ MPW. letsrun gives a distorted view of running talent.

If you work consistently at the bench for a few years, you will hit 300. Some people are saying it's hard to hit 300 at 165#. Sure. But no one says you have to stay at 165#. If you're strength training consistently and eating right, you should be up around 185-200, especially if your goals are strength oriented.

No one is on here complaining that it's hard to run sub-5 at 200#. Because part of the training to go sub-5 is to lean out. In contrast, part of the training to bench 300# is to pack on weight.