I don't recall the time when Ortega was with AW. Was that later in his career? I saw him win the Culver City marathon around 1977 (or 1978?), and he wasn't affiliated with AW at that point.
I don't recall the time when Ortega was with AW. Was that later in his career? I saw him win the Culver City marathon around 1977 (or 1978?), and he wasn't affiliated with AW at that point.
pre841 wrote:
I don't recall the time when Ortega was with AW. Was that later in his career? I saw him win the Culver City marathon around 1977 (or 1978?), and he wasn't affiliated with AW at that point.
1978. Yes he was.
Orville, I really enjoy reading your posts! Keep posting your memories and experiences. Matt (British/Canadian)
>By the way, what is, or was, 'BostonFest'?<
This race was an attempt by a Boston newscaster & friend of running, Jack Hines, to stage a second Boston Marathon in the fall of 1983.
Tommy Leonard, Guru & Boston Marathon "official greeter" asks, "can you have two Christmas?"
The race was held through the streets of Boston. Andy won a car.
The race may have benn run for a few more years after that, I don't recall.
BillCarr-
That's a great newsletter! Nice to see all those names from the old days. Is that IBM typewriter still for sale?
BillCarr wrote:
>>obviously, Hanson's is on to something - I think they have done a very solid job so far
>>
Follow the money; Hanson's been willing to spend it.
Anyone, or any club, or any corporation that's able to put up some kind of funding for a period of years is going to accumulate some names and decent race times.
That there are few clubs that can boast years of great rosters, says a lot about the financial conditions of Running Clubs than anything else.
1979 Boston, saw 4 men from the GBTC finish in the top 10. It was something they were proud of as well. All sub 2:15. Would this be the greeatest team perfomance in a single marathon by a US team. Not to mention the course they did it on was not Chicago/London, and is generally considered one of the tougher ones out there. Also all four of these men were originally from New England, and did the majority of their training in the area.
Rodgers; Weslyan/Melrose
Hodge: U-Lowell
Thomas: Umass/Cleveland Circle
Mahoney: Boston College/ Weymouth
Pretty impressive stuff in an era of US distance running that will most likely never be matched. ** Note 8 Americans finished in the top 10**
Basil Heatley was one of the great runners of his generation. World record holder, Olympic silver medalist, international cross country champion and a great person. His club Coventry Godiva Harriers( also David Moorcroft's) would be a match for any club before or after them.
Portugese club Sporting Lisbon would also figure amongst the best.
Do you have to be an Olympian to join the Toronto Olympic Club Orville? I would like to get back to training , I have been doing yoga for the last 2 years .
HRE wrote:
Washington Running Club, plus, 13th on the list is 2:18:55
. . .
13 Walter Sargent 1990 Columbus Marathon (U.S. National Championship) 2:18:55
Wow! I hadn't expected to see my name on letsrun.com. And on a list of such fine runners -- Fultz, Malley, Spence, and the rest.
Uh, no.
I know many people that run for TOC. They're just fast.
How about clubs with women under 2:50?
Walter,
You're one of the young uns that came after I'd left the club. I really had not paid too much attention to what went on there and who was doing what after I left, but a look at their website really impressed me. I think there are about 20 guys on the list below 2:20.
I'm in the masters group with 43:00 10K and 4:02 Marathon PR. I would like to get some expert training advice using cross training. ie: spin class's . Thanks Moscow
I find this amusing. I ran for the East York Track Club during my 5 years in Toronto. 45 years later I am answering questions about our biggest rival. Both clubs were great Track and Field Clubs in my day. The Toronto Olympic Club was also a great marathoners club. In the early 60s, Paul Poce, the founder and backbone of the TOC, was a competitor of mine. He was also very helpful to me even though I was in the other club. By the way, the Toronto Olympic Club has an excellent web site. There is a section about membership. I am sure if you contact them you will be able to obtain more information.
TOCs web site lists at least 13 women as having broken 2:50 for the marathon.
HRE wrote:
Walter,
You're one of the young uns that came after I'd left the club. I really had not paid too much attention to what went on there and who was doing what after I left, but a look at their website really impressed me. I think there are about 20 guys on the list below 2:20.
HRE,
Not that young, I'm afraid (46 years old). I joined WRC in 1981, moved away from D.C. in '84, but kept my affiliation with the club for some years. I remember Will Albers (who died a few years ago), Laura DeWald Albers (2:33 marathoner, and a total babe and sweetheart), Bruce Robinson, Jim Hage, Henry O'Connell, Matt Wilson, Bruce Coldsmith, Dan Rincon, and many others. If you're willing to be "outed," who are you, anyway?
Did anyone notice a common theme with almost all the post. All these great times were mostly run 15-20 years ago. Lets Face it the running era or at least here in America is DEAD. WE SUCK TODAY. Lucky to find one sub 2:18 marathon runner in area let alone on one running club. The days are over.
I gave up my chances for Olympic glory when I decided to be a family man. My mile times that pregressed in high school , ( from 5:05 to 4:56: to 4:51 ) showed I had some natural talent . After the schoolarship fell through , I switched to recreational hockey. Now I'm back to running , to get a Boston qualifier.
Another way to look at it is that US distance running had a spike in the late70s to 1984 but otherwise has been more or less at the same competitiveness level on the world scale before and after. So it's not like America has always been this great LD power house and things are bad now.
The question is - why were things different then compared to now? Simply a lot more Americans were running after college and training and competing at a high level. You get your usual 31-32min 10k college graduate still turning 80-100M weeks while holding down a full time job, you get a fantastic base of competitiveness across the country. Simply picking up a prize at a local road race is a much harder thing to do since you'll have to run 30min or faster. So when you have a ton of "normal joes" running sub30min 10K's regularly and sub2:22's regularly, it really pushes the upper levels - the guys who work parttime/are elite, since there are a dozen other guys at least in their city alone that could potentially take their place. This is essentially the Kenyan effect - a ton of people are running, a whole lot are good, it just pushes the guys at the top of the pyramid more.
I think US distance running has been on an upswing (certainly compared to the 90s) in terms of top performances the last three or four years, but overall depth isn't increasing as fast. Elite camps are definitely part of the solution, but if you want the US as deep as it was in the 1980s, that's a nationwide occurrence that has to happen. For example, there were 1019 sub2:20 performances in 1983, the worst year between 1979 and 1985 was '85 where there were "only" 400 performances. The best year this decade so far was 2002 with 161 performances under 2:20. And to show that great running boom of yesteryear was limited to 1979-1985: the best year prior to '79 was 1978 with only 282 performances. Most years prior to that were lucky to break 50.
Of course, being a country strong in depth does not always mean medals and high finishes at world-class events. Japan is a perfect example of this at 10k. And Ethiopia is a good example of a country that isn't that deep compared to arch-rival Kenyan (though it is picking up momentum) but is usually a better medal pick than Kenya. But usually, being deep means a bunch of really fast runners will emerge year after year.
Walter,
You're sort of young by my standards. But we can't grouse too much about age or Orville will come on and set us right.
I'm willing to be outed, though I doubt my name will mean anything to you; Rich Englehart. I joined in 1974 when it was still the Washington Sports Club and was part of the Great Breakaway when we became the WRC. Like you, I left the area but stayed with the club for a while. Can't recall exactly when I left. I probably missed you by a year or two.
About half the people you list were there when I was. I had no idea Will Albers had died. Do you want to say how? you can e-mail me if you'd rather not put it on the board or keep it private if you prefer.