Dibaba rumored 6x8 session!!

I disagree with you and all of the other posters who suggest that workout is impossible. Except for perhaps the 1:58 at the end, a 4:08 miler could do that workout. I had a 4:08 miler do that workout with about 3 minutes rest, the only difference is his last 800 was 2:01.

You suck as a coach then. Whatever pace you can run 3x800m at is an indicator of your mile race pace. Plus, you essentially said what everyone has been saying, a 4.08 miler couldn't do that workout. I doubt she could do half that work. 1.58 for 800m is a top ten 800m time for the year, a time that can win Olympic gold, and faster than the national records of all but a few countries.

Bramaterra wrote:

I think she did it. But I think it was 4 x 800m with the last in 1:58. She runs with guys as well, so was likely rabbited.

Well she said in the interview it was 6x800, so...

Total b.s. wrote:

You suck as a coach then. Whatever pace you can run 3x800m at is an indicator of your mile race pace. Plus, you essentially said what everyone has been saying, a 4.08 miler couldn't do that workout.

I doubt she could do half that work. 1.58 for 800m is a top ten 800m time for the year, a time that can win Olympic gold, and faster than the national records of all but a few countries.

The first part of your post makes sense. The second part (which I've separated into a separate paragraph) makes no sense.

What other people can run does not limit what you can run. It does not matter if it is a top ten time or a top 100 time. Furthermore, what 3:4x 1500 runners do you know that could NOT easily run a 1:58??

I think there also is issues with assuming Dibaba's workouts are related to a male athlete running similar times.

Dibaba has very good technical efficiency with her hip extension, much like Haile. She lands and unloads in a very good position. It's weird to think of, but her raw strength is actually not very high compared to guys her same speed, but her technical efficiency is much higher. Someone who may be comparable is perhaps Shaheen, so lets look at his workouts:

AM 4x1600m (3:56-3:59) 4:30 rest

PM 2x5x300 (38 avg) 50s rest -5' rec

Well, who can run 4xmile faster than their 3k, then come back to run 2 sets of 5x800s at near their 600 PR?

That's what you get when you have runners with high level efficiency doing hard workouts. Slightly different than "I had an 4:08 athlete run this XX workout".

4:08 athletes would run 4xmile in 4:18s and the 300s in 40s. I don't think they can do that either..

Agreed with all of this. My question is what kind of 800 speed does this workout indicate? Is it outrageous to think that she could be the first woman under 4 minutes for the mile?

runthecountry wrote:

I was wondering when a thread about this workout would pop up! It is a mind blowing workout ... the men's equivalent would be 6x800 in 1:48, 1:49, 1:50, 1:50, 1:50, 1:45!

If I did 6x800 and ended up racing a 1500 at that pace, I would be disappointed ... that workout is usually MUCH closer to 5000 pace. I've run 3:55 for the 1500, and I feel like that workout indicates at least 3:44 for a race (and at that speed, would probably indicate racing the workout, too!)

The Spork wrote:

1) 2.02

2) 2.03

3) 2.04

4) 2.04

5) 2.04

6) 1.58

All with 2 minutes rest. This indicates MUCH faster than 3.50 for 1500, in my opinion.

Obviously it's a very impressive workout, but two quick comments:

-I don't believe she specified the rest, so it could have been longer than 2 minutes.

-She doesn't give the actual times for the 4th and 5th pickups. When she says "etc", she could mean the 4th and 5th were continued the pattern of being 1 second slower than the preceeding 800, which would make them 2:05 and 2:06.

However you slice it, I don't see why she would have lied and it seems reasonable to think she could be the first woman under 8 for 3000m.

Superwoman (actually Superwomen, since she has sisters).

Her first 1k in the 1500 was 2:35.6 - second fastest in the world this year (after Hassan). Her LAST 1k was 2:32.4 - would be the fastest time in the world since 2002 (AR is 2:31.80, Regina Jacobs. No other American woman has broken 2:33).

As for the splits, these are quotes from her, not rumors. So the doubters are saying she is lying, or too naïve or casual about running to know what she was saying (which is ridiculous). But why would she lie about this? If she had said she could smash the most unassailable record on the books the doubters would have scoffed at that also.

This workout was on the Monaco track.

30% longer rest is pretty significant, man. 2 minutes changed to 3 minutes makes a huge difference.

stats.gangsta_the_real_1 wrote:

malmo wrote:

3 miles easy; 3 x 880 (2:06, 2:03, 2:02), 4 x 440 (60,58,60,57)

3 mile warm-down

1500m 3:46

This workout of yours seems pretty similar to her workout. Putting the splits (44.62, 60.31, 64.52, 60.62) of her 1500m in

http://timescalculator.appspot.com/optimizer

gives 3:46.84

What does this post mean?

I don't think it's BS. She's a strength runner with a well-developed base who has the engine to recover quickly. In that interview she mentions that her speed was the the component she felt held her back from the WR...and that 1:58 is what told her she had it...not the reps before it.

In the 1500, speed endurance is more the ceiling on where you think you can get to. That 1:58 told her that the speed endurance is where it needs to be...and she can get herself halfway through the race at 2:04 if she can kick in 2:00.

Women just don't have the same speed endurance that men have...so comparing men to women is apples to oranges. For example...what does a 3:50 male run for 800m? 1:49 - 1:51? Do you think Dibaba can break the WR at 800m? I doubt it. That 1:58 was probably near all out..she might be a 1:56 high, 1:57 low 800m runner. I've heard a number of coaches say that the olympic level women's 800 is comparatively weak compared to the men's times...but maybe that's just the function of what steroids did to the women's records at 800m/400m. That type of speed endurance is near impossible to replicate without serious alteration of hormones, and in turn, it really limits what can be done at 1500m. I would suspect from the aerobic direction you can get there but you definitely need an aerobic freak like we've never seen make some serious improvements in speed endurance to get close. And as others have mentioned...you need a rabbit willing and able to run near all out for 800m.

I'd be more curious to see what she can run a 3k in right now. As that workout indicates she could destroy a 3k...something in the low 7:50's. But, she would need a rabbit able to run 4:00, and that limits it to like 6 people who are already medalist level in their own event and not going to sacrifice their season plan. I'd love to see a strength runner like Jenny Simpson take Dibaba as far as she can go at 4:00min in a 3k.

Frank Horwill:

"But where did Coe get his amazing endurance from? The answer came to me in 1986 when I went to Battersea Park Track one Saturday morning with a 13:11 5km performer to do a session of 7 x 800m at 5km speed with 45 secs rest. The rep times were fixed at 2:08 because the 5km runner was returning to fitness after injury. Coe was on the track and came across and asked what we were doing and could he join in? I felt a little apprehensive that an acknowledged 800m/1,500m runner would not survive a 5km pace session with a short recovery. The 800ms went like this: 2:08, 2:06, 2:04, 2:02, 2:00, 1:58 and 1:56! Coe led them all. Afterwards, he confessed that he did a 5km pace session at 13:20 speed each week. I ventured the opinion that he could run a good 5km anytime. He agreed, but said he didn't like the event! It is doubtful whether any 800m runner before or since could have completed such a session in such times. "

Total b.s. wrote:

You suck as a coach then. Whatever pace you can run 3x800m at is an indicator of your mile race pace. Plus, you essentially said what everyone has been saying, a 4.08 miler couldn't do that workout. I doubt she could do half that work. 1.58 for 800m is a top ten 800m time for the year, a time that can win Olympic gold, and faster than the national records of all but a few countries.

I am looking at a log right now of a 4:08 high school kid, where the only difference is the first 800 was 2:03 and last was 2:01. Btw, this kid probably could have run the last 800 a second of 2 faster, but the workout goal was only 2:05. With that said, he jogged a lap and waited a minute, which came out to about 3 minutes rest. - Perhaps there is a difference between a B.S. boy and world class woman...I don't know.

I honestly haven't decided yet whether I think the workout is bs.

But four thoughts:

1) I agree with whoever said, why would she lie? The reason I agree? Because I also agree with whoever said, she has no rivals. This is not a woman who needs to say something to scare her competition. Her races have already done that.

2) As a couple posters have pointed out, she did not say anything about the recovery intervals in her interview. So they could have been substantial. And yes, that makes a big difference.

3) I don't think it necessarily works to directly compare her workout to various workouts guys have done, whether it's guys posting on this thread or elite runners whose logs we can look back on. Those type of comparisons are a long way from apples to apples. Just ask any high school coach who's been at it for enough years. They can tell you about plenty of girls who could keep up or almost keep up with certain guys in practice, but who couldn't race nearly as fast. It's just not the same. Workouts are an indicator of course, but they are not necessarily an accurate predictor.

4) Let's not outright dismiss the possibility that the workout is legit and there is more in her than we have seen so far. Just because she ran 3:50 in Monaco does not mean that was the limit of her fitness, as incredible as that may sound. It was a 4+ second pr and she was alone for the second half of the race. She also said in the interview that she was closely watching the times, and she knew she was under the record. In a situation like that, the mental limitation factor can easily take over and convince you that you're out at the margins and all you can do and should try to do is hang on. Maybe, just maybe, we are in the early stages of witnessing something very special and historic.

va coach wrote:

2) As a couple posters have pointed out, she did not say anything about the recovery intervals in her interview. So they could have been substantial. And yes, that makes a big difference.

I didn't even realize it at first but you're totally right; it was the OP who said she took 2:00 rest, not her. If she was taking 3:00, 4:00 or even more as rest then I definitely believe she could have done that workout. And, like you said, why would she lie?

Jama Aden usually prescribes long rests for intense sessions. I wouldn't be suprised if she had 4-5 minutes between the 800s. Still a super impressive session (especially the 1:58), but seems more doable

bigtool05 wrote:

va coach wrote:

2) As a couple posters have pointed out, she did not say anything about the recovery intervals in her interview. So they could have been substantial. And yes, that makes a big difference.

I didn't even realize it at first but you're totally right; it was the OP who said she took 2:00 rest, not her. If she was taking 3:00, 4:00 or even more as rest then I definitely believe she could have done that workout. And, like you said, why would she lie?

World class runners lie about their workouts all the time. Morceli said he could do 16x400 with a minute rest in 52.

The thing is you guys (even Malmo) are all scrubs compared to her. She is the fastest woman EVER. Think of it that way. You don't compare a 3:50 guy to her.

What would ElG do for this workout? That's what you need to ask.