Last 800m: Coe 1:48.5 / Centrowitz 1:48.7

QED, excellent post. I hope Centro really has a great race at World's, I'm really interested in seeing what he's capable of but definitely too early to compare him to Coe.

It's only one race guys. Centrowitz had a great finish at 1:48.7, but Andrews closed at 1:49.4 and no one is arguing that he going to break a US record.

I agree that Centro's in good shape and should have a nice summer, but tone it down a little.

Deanouk wrote:

I think Centro could run 3:29.5 at present in the right race (e.g. Monaco perhaps)..

I think that's too fast of a guess for Centro. In the 2004 final, El G and Lagat closed their last 800m 1 second faster in a race that was FOUR seconds faster overall (3:34?). You think they could do that only being 2-2.5 seconds faster than Centrowitz? Centro ran that last 800m off of speed not 1500m ability.

From Centro's performance in Eugene I get with my scientific formula:

100 - 10.7

200 - 21.3

400 (hurdles) - 48.9

800 - 1:39.8

1500 - 3:24.5

3000 - 7:18.2

5000 - 12:33.3

10000 - 26:07

HM - 57:40

MA 2:00:11

javelin throw: 90,67 meters.

beer mile: 4:38

he's clearly in good shape.

Abdi Bile closed in 1:46 when he won the 87 World Champs 1500. I think his winning time was around 3:36 (please correct me if I am wrong).

Barrister II wrote:

Abdi Bile closed in 1:46 when he won the 87 World Champs 1500. I think his winning time was around 3:36 (please correct me if I am wrong).

Pretty sure it was nearer 1:47. About 1:46.9.

Finish time was 3:36.8 iirc.

& again you forget to mention that centro ran last 600 solo whereas coe got drafted around until his kick off the bend

huge disadvantage for centro

nonsense

he maya got close to 1'48-flat if he'd started his kick earlier but again that wouda mean he lost that huge drafting advantage he got, slowing that 1'48.0

no chance 1'47.0

why can't you think ???

centro front-ran last 600

nonsense

centro looks in 3'29+ shape

coe was not in better than 3'30-low/mid shape in '80

centro coud be upto 1s better shape than coe was in '80

the fact that it was essentially a 800 race in both cases erodes centro's advantage meaning it wouda been a virtual toss-up as to who woud win

whoever got drafted woud have huge advantage, but i don't see coe running anything like a 1'48+ if he was asked to lead last 800

more like crawl to 1300 & then a big-kick

ask him to run hard like straub did for him & i definitely give win to centro

nonsense stats

centro ran solo last 600 whilst coe was drafted for 470m of the last 600

what on earth does your neurone think coe's last 200 wouda been if he'd run the last 600 solo ???

nonsense consideration seeing as centro was solo last 600 & coe drafted for ~ 470m of it

nonsense consideration considering above of solo v hugely drafted for most of last 600

in coe's favour

however his races were rubbish clockings : 1'48 / 1'46 / 1'45.8 / 3'40 / 3'39 & then 3'38.4 in final

guys like cruz/Rudy put in 1'43/1'44 prelims meaning real energy-sapping runs

clueless

it only takes 1 good performance providing no mickey-mouse track/timing

as for "multi-wr holder", coe's 1500 clockings are nothing special by today's standards

in '80 he was worth nothing better than 3'30-low/mid in a perfect rested race

centro looks 3'29+, significantly faster than coe-'80 & this run by centro was not rested !!!

also, eugene weather was far too damn hot for an ideal 1500 which shoud be ~ 70F

temperatures in eugene were pushing 100F on friday/saturday

far too hot to run an ideal 1500

utter nonsense

in '80, coe's 1500pb was 3'32.0

centro currently has a 3'31.0pb

1s faster than coe's was in '80

get a clue

clueless

coe had 3'32.0pb at the time

centro 1s faster at 3'31.0

clueless

coe hadn't broken 3'32 by moscow & didn't in '80

you offer nonsense

utter nonsense

coe never faced anyone in moscow or in '80 who had broken 3'32

centro has to face guys who in start of this decade :

3'27+ : 2

3'28+ : 2

3'29+ : 6

i have not even bothered with pathetic 3'30 let alone 3'31 !!!

the level today at 1500 is quantum leap above '80

coe never had to face anytime in his career a guy like Asbel who finished a 3'31.1 with a 12.4 !!!

centro wouda been chomping at the bit to run moscow '80

conversely coe in '80 shape wouda had had no chance in a fast 1500 in this era :

silas ran 3'27.6 with 53.9 finish !!!

nonsense

coe never broke 3'32 by end '80

nonsense

see what 1500 "legend" coe of '80 shape wouda been in current era

like i said, centro wouda been chomping at the bit if feasting on '80 guys

eh ???

what happened to oslo or zurich ???

what has suddenly gone wrong with them ???

nonsense

coe was never capable of 3'27

in firenze shape he was 800 orientated & woudn't have broken 3'29

4/52 later, he had lost his 800 shape as 8 more stand-alone 800s no better than 1'45.4 after firenze shows, he was better endurance wise & probably good for 3'29-flat in stockholm-'81

nearly 6/52 later in brussels & then 9/7 later in zurich he was in 3'28-mid/high shape, but his 800 shape was not firenze, regardless of mickey-mouse of it

you seem to be so clueless as to think a guy maintains his top-shape for any event after 2.5 months + ???!!!

coe's best 800 shape was early-season '81 & slower 800 shape in late-season '81 as his rubbish 8 stand-alone 800s shows, but his 1500 was slightly better

utter nonsense

centro has a ~ 1s superior 1500pb to coe-'80

that gives him huge shot at winning '80 1500, especially considering he ran solo last 600 & coe was drafted last ~ 470m of it & centro still ran 1.15s faster !!!

what on earth does your neurone think centro's last 800 or 600 or 200 wouda been if he'd had straub drafting him around ???

most here believe centro is currently in 3'29+ shape & this was run after rounds in brutal heat, pushing 100F, far too hot for a 1500

ideal is ~ 70F

call it 3'29-flat, fully rested on a temperate day in oslo

i doubt he improved much from bowerman :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O47nDQFmX7o

in that, Asbel was ~ 13.5m behind him at the bell

( he was hugely jet-lagged & travel-fatigued, having run incredible 3'36.0 at 7,000', then travelled to miserable ostrava for a 1k then all the way to eugene in 8/7 !!! )

on last lap, both ran wide on bends, but Asbel thruout all of bends & wider

conservatively, Asbel ran ~ 3m extra compared to centro on bends

total of ~ 16.5m

in essence, we have centro, a current likely 3'29-flat guy, who ran a very windy 1'44.5 in new york with race straight after, bolt's 200 having - 2.8 !!!, likely to be in 1'43-low/mid shape on a windless day, having

~ 16m

taken out of him on the last lap !!!

what on earth 800/1500 shape was Asbel in !!!

To think a runner with no gold medals, no world records would outrun Coe and his 1:41 800 speed is just laughable.

SWEDES wrote:

To think a runner with no gold medals, no world records would outrun Coe and his 1:41 800 speed is just laughable.

Centro is about to establish himself as the best 1500 runner in the world.

Centro is THE MAN.

Centro has medaled at the WC's twice. He's not a one off wonder. And he raced full fields with no prime opponents injured. Centro is darn good. As good as Coe? Not at 800, that's for sure. Not as speedy but far stronger. Coe couldn't have run 13:20 if his life depended on it.

Wow, I would wholeheartedly disagree with that statement. Coe was very easily a 13.20 man. I don't think you know Seb's history/background/training by the sound of your statement. Though, you're certainly welcome to your own opinion. Unfortunately, it's based only on what you've only read, and not seen.

sub 147 guy here wrote:

Centro has medaled at the WC's twice. He's not a one off wonder. And he raced full fields with no prime opponents injured. Centro is darn good. As good as Coe? Not at 800, that's for sure. Not as speedy but far stronger. Coe couldn't have run 13:20 if his life depended on it.

I dunno. I wouldn't be so sure about that.

46.5 with 1:41.73 gives

13:20.88 for 5k.

Coe MIGHT have been closer to 13:20 capability than you think. With regards to the thread topic, has anyone considered another of Coe's races?

I'm not that familiar with his career, but I just watched his 3:31 in 1981 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-W7B483K8). He OPENED in about 1:49.18 according to the announcer. That was in a 3:31 vs Centrowitz's 3:37. This race of Coe's was equivalent to a 3:29.14.

stats.gangsta_the_real_1 wrote:

I dunno. I wouldn't be so sure about that.

46.5 with 1:41.73 gives

13:20.88 for 5k.

Coe MIGHT have been closer to 13:20 capability than you think. With regards to the thread topic, has anyone considered another of Coe's races?

I'm not that familiar with his career, but I just watched his 3:31 in 1981 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-W7B483K8). He OPENED in about 1:49.18 according to the announcer. That was in a 3:31 vs Centrowitz's 3:37. This race of Coe's was equivalent to a 3:29.14.

Just looked at the date of that 1981 3:31 - It took place just a month before his 800m world record of 1:41.73. Those two times were run pretty close together, so I'll use them in the calculator.

3:29.14 & 1:41.73...

400 0:46.03

800 1:41.73

1000 2:11.50

1500 3:29.14

1-mile 3:46.56

3000 7:39.41

2-mile 8:17.30

5000 13:36.85

10000 29:34.29

...for the summer of 1981.

The difference being Coe was in an Olympic final running for a gold medal after a devastating loss and also knowing the person he lost to, Steve Ovett was coming behind him. Centro was only running in the American championships and had broken the field with 100 to go. Not saying Centro's run was better than Coe's but Coe had much, much more motivation to go fast the last 100. Centro had no one pressing him. It was only a question of how much he would win by.

how can anyone even compare coe and centro? coe's pb's are all way quicker. 4 secs 800 so miles ahead speed wise. 3 secs quicker over a mile so better speed endurance. how could centro possibly compare with coe? so he might run a quicker 5k? neither are 5k runners though so it doesnt really matter. coe would beat him easily off a quick pace or a slow pace. the times coe was running were world records as well. imagine if he was running in the times of el g and ngeny. he might have run sub 3.28 he certainly had the talent. centro at the moment is absolutely nowhere near coe's standard.

Coe could kick in a 400m too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FktMJWzpqHg

Even more impressive. Well under 46s despite stumbling at the changeover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhZGonCBaOM

mk29 wrote:

how can anyone even compare coe and centro? coe's pb's are all way quicker. 4 secs 800 so miles ahead speed wise. 3 secs quicker over a mile so better speed endurance. how could centro possibly compare with coe? so he might run a quicker 5k? neither are 5k runners though so it doesnt really matter. coe would beat him easily off a quick pace or a slow pace. the times coe was running were world records as well. imagine if he was running in the times of el g and ngeny. he might have run sub 3.28 he certainly had the talent. centro at the moment is absolutely nowhere near coe's standard.

Centro is THE MAN.

I feel sorry for so many people who have no clue as to what they are witnessing until it has passed them by.