DREW HUNTER TAKES DOWN GRANT FISHER IN BROOKS PR 2 MILE

I'm not surprised Hunter beat Fisher, particularly based on how strong Drew look at the Adidas Dream a couple of weeks ago. Drew was right there, and if he hadn't been tripped up the last turn, would have been within striking distance. In my opinion, Drew has a bit more natural endurance than speed, and so it made sense he could close the gap in a two mile race. Tinman Schwartz works closely with Drew's coach (Drew's mom), and coach Schwartz is a master at developing endurance in an incremental fashion without doing a lot of gut wrenching intervals.

It's all about the CV pace, baby! Worked well for my guys. Congrats to Drew, Kudos to Coaches as well!

Re: fastest junior ever.

Yes.

Broke Joe Rosa's 8:44 prior Jr. class record.

Also faster than the 8:41/3200m that Ritz ran as a junior.

It was a great race, and I'm so happy that my wife and I could be there. The whole race looked like it was Fisher's. But Hunter did a fantastic job holding Fisher off down the back straight and all the way around the last turn. Everyone in the stadium was certain Fisher's kick would take the win in the last 100 meters, but Hunter had the better kick. Opening mile of 4:26, and closing mile in 4:16! With a 55 second last quarter. Awesome race, and it was so exciting to see someone finally take down Fisher, who is still the best high school miler in the country. If Hunter stays healthy his senior year, even Verzbicas' 8:29 could fall.

Breaking 4 and winning FL XC twice and only losing one race in 2 years (or more) while racing Dream Miles and other national races- and he doesn't make your list. I guess you have some ridiculous standards.

Okay, I have to disagree on that. I do agree that he fits in after the others that you listed (who I have deleted), but not Fernandez.

Grant - 3:59/8:42 with 2 footlocker titles and a loss to Hunter (who you say may be a top 10 type talent).

Fernandez - 4:01c/8:34 with a 3rd place footlocker finish behind Fout and Derrick (Derrick is arguably a top 20-30 guy, Fout is off the map despite being an XC stud)

I still say Grant's resume wins.

Fernandez's double at the CA state meet is legendary. He ran 4:01c and 8:34 without pacers in a high school only setting at the same damn meet. Fernandez also ran 14:24 solo at the CA State XC meet which is just insane. Fernandez>Fisher

Hunter as a 4:02 8:42 two miler has advanced himself into all time status. period, end of story. Back to back weeks?

Ritz never ran 8:42 for yards and ran 4:05 mile maybe

Hunter is very very good with no give up in any of his races I have seen.

this makes me wonder what would have happened at the dream mile if Hunter and Brannigan hadn't bumped into each other in the last 200m

Ritz ran 8:41.1 for 3200m and won by 30 seconds. As a junior. If Hunter finishes 3rd at World Junior CC and runs 13:43, I'll give him the nod.

I'm a big German fan, but he seriously only had like 3 exceptional days in high school that would even have him in this discussion. He graduated with 1 national championship.Grant has raced every single national championship (3 seasons) the last 2 years, and today was his first loss. He has a faster mile PR than Fernandez (also ran a faster 1600m solo at his state meet that German's (yes, by .01)). 2 footlocker championships, 2 indoor miles, 2 dream miles.Is his 8:43 the fastest 2 mile by a high schooler in a losing effort in an all-HS race?

urkiddinright... wrote:

Okay, I have to disagree on that. I do agree that he fits in after the others that you listed (who I have deleted), but not Fernandez.

Grant - 3:59/8:42 with 2 footlocker titles and a loss to Hunter (who you say may be a top 10 type talent).

Fernandez - 4:01c/8:34 with a 3rd place footlocker finish behind Fout and Derrick (Derrick is arguably a top 20-30 guy, Fout is off the map despite being an XC stud)

I still say Grant's resume wins.

Fernandez's double at the CA state meet is legendary. He ran 4:01c and 8:34 without pacers in a high school only setting at the same damn meet. Fernandez also ran 14:24 solo at the CA State XC meet which is just insane. Fernandez>Fisher

beg2differ wrote:

Gyyguerxgyuxde wrote:

On my list, I have:

Ryun: legend because of the mile

Webb: legend because of the mile

LV: legend because of the 2 miles (with a good mile to back it up)

Ritz: legend because of his 5000m

Rupp: legend because of the 5000m (with a good 2 mile to back it up)

Lindgren: legend because of the 5000m (with a good 2 mile to back it up)

Fernandez: legend because of the 2 miles (with a good mile to back it up)

Fisher is not a legend. hunter could become one

Breaking 4 and winning FL XC twice and only losing one race in 2 years (or more) while racing Dream Miles and other national races- and he doesn't make your list. I guess you have some ridiculous standards.

Yes, becoming a legend, by definition, requires ridiculous standards.

Notice that everybody that I mentioned above (except for Ritz, who missed the 5000m record by a few tenths) held/holds a US HS record. Some of the people above held these records for decades.

Fisher does not hold any US HS record. Some people who held HS records are not on this list.

I believe that Fisher (and Hunter) are just below legend status. They both have run incredible HS times, but are not legendary.

Hunter has the chance to get that label. For that to happen, Hunter would need to run the mile faster than Ryun did in HS or run the 2 miles faster than Fernandez or run the 5000m faster than Lindgren. He may be able to do that next year. Fisher on the other hand will not get that chance since he's graduating (who knows, he has a month and a half to reach these times).

Hunter is coached by his parents, not anyone else.

As I said early this week.......4 weeks in a row of racing would have an impact on Fisher

8:42 with a 55 finish is NASTY!

Mid-8:30s for both with even pacing.

Chfhghvghgvhgv wrote:

beg2differ wrote:

Breaking 4 and winning FL XC twice and only losing one race in 2 years (or more) while racing Dream Miles and other national races- and he doesn't make your list. I guess you have some ridiculous standards.

Yes, becoming a legend, by definition, requires ridiculous standards.

Half of your list sufferes recency bias. Chapas 10k for example is a level above anything LV, Fernandez, or Ritz did. Ryun and Lindgren stand alone (i.e HS that were world class) and Webb was right behind them (i.e. he was a legit top 10 US 1500m guy) and Ritz is there for XC (yes the 5k was impressive but it is hard to get a good feel for 5ks since they are infrequenty run by the top guys). And that ignores guys like Virgin, Prefontaine, and the like. Fisher definitely deserves to be mentioned along side them but it is hard to say if he is better or not.

Fisher has 3:59/8:43 now, with a series of low 4's, and two straight XC titles, and undefeated for almost two years

Hunter 4:02/8:42, closing in 55>but a year to go to run sub 4 and sub 8:40 tremendous talent

Ritz 4:05/8:40s, but the 5000m in 13:44 was a level above the two miles>>he didn't get his chance with pros to beat Jeff Nelson's then 2M record, but he could have done it. The 3rd at Junior World XC behind Bekele is a superior mark. He was not a great miler.

Webb 3:53.43/8:45i Not a great xc runner but the mile was fifth at Pre against the pros and the fastest mile of the year for an American

GF 4:01/8:34

LV 3:59/8:29 Also two straight XC titles

Ryun 3:55 beat Olympic gold medalist Peter Snell in hs

Lindgren 8:40i? on a tiny indoor track?/13:44 already among the best in the world in hs

Pre 8:40 already hammering four minute milers on a recruiting run

I wish I knew a little more what Chapa's 10K was equivalent to, or what someone like Ritz could've run for the 10K in HS.

I do agree that Lindgren/Ryun are the top two (I don't differentiate between the two because of different skill sets), and Webb/Ritz are the next level (again, I don't differentiate between the two, as one was mid-D and one was long distance).

Half of your list sufferes recency bias. Chapas 10k for example is a level above anything LV, Fernandez, or Ritz did. Ryun and Lindgren stand alone (i.e HS that were world class) and Webb was right behind them (i.e. he was a legit top 10 US 1500m guy) and Ritz is there for XC (yes the 5k was impressive but it is hard to get a good feel for 5ks since they are infrequenty run by the top guys). And that ignores guys like Virgin, Prefontaine, and the like. Fisher definitely deserves to be mentioned along side them but it is hard to say if he is better or not.

Recency bias?

Who else other than Ryun or Webb held the HS record in the last 50 years?

Who else other than Lindgren, Fernandez or LV held the HS 2 miles in the last 50 years?

Who else other than Lindgren and Rupp held the HS record in the last 50 years?

I didn't put Chapa's name because the 10,000 is infrequently run.

I think that Chaparral would actually be next on my list however...

Some of you are the stupidest ever

Pre ran 8:41.6 on a cold night on cinders?

4:24/4:17 in

40+ years ago

do you think any HS guy today would drop him? As a 13:52 HS guy?

And someone who ran 3:54.6 when WR was 3:51.x?