Magness went public very fast if you think about it. Consider that the Athletics West story still isn't entirely public, and how many years has it been now? The people who know won't talk about it because they know nothing good will come from it.
Magness went public very fast if you think about it. Consider that the Athletics West story still isn't entirely public, and how many years has it been now? The people who know won't talk about it because they know nothing good will come from it.
Roelants wrote:
I think the relevant question is what USADA did witht the information.
Agreed, but I think we need to know exactly what info Magness provided - was it just verbal, or did he send them the photo?
If the info they received was just verbal, I can see why USADA would have decided to tread lightly. If Magness sent them the photo, I'm disturbed that so little has been done.
In all fairness, WADA can't exactly start issuing punishments based off cell-phone photos of graphs/charts. That's not within their guidelines either. WADA isn't exactly trying to share juicy allegations to ruin coach/athletes reputation just to keep Letsrun posters happy. They were aware and trying to catch Rupp with ACTUAL evidence of doping...hence why he was the most tested athlete.
Now, BBC on the other hand is glad to share the allegations, but they don't assume any real responsibility in the sport. Their job is to create headlines, not police the sport. After ruining Mo/Alberto/Rupp, they move onto covering their soccer. There are guidelines for policing the sport, we think athletes shouldn't have any rights. As of now, every sports/running outlet writes NOP is DOPING as headlines. We pretty much ruined NOP's image without one failed test... that is why WADA isn't sharing this data. All they can do is turn up the heat.
I am not exactly siding on Alberto's side, but can't put a fork in something without clear conviction.
Perhaps because it took that long to create a document that when flashed in a documentary for a few seconds might appear to be legit by the masses.
Amerikano wrote:
In all fairness, WADA can't exactly start issuing punishments based off cell-phone photos of graphs/charts. That's not within their guidelines either. WADA isn't exactly trying to share juicy allegations to ruin coach/athletes reputation just to keep Letsrun posters happy. They were aware and trying to catch Rupp with ACTUAL evidence of doping...hence why he was the most tested athlete.
Now, BBC on the other hand is glad to share the allegations, but they don't assume any real responsibility in the sport. Their job is to create headlines, not police the sport. After ruining Mo/Alberto/Rupp, they move onto covering their soccer. There are guidelines for policing the sport, we think athletes shouldn't have any rights. As of now, every sports/running outlet writes NOP is DOPING as headlines. We pretty much ruined NOP's image without one failed test... that is why WADA isn't sharing this data. All they can do is turn up the heat.
I am not exactly siding on Alberto's side, but can't put a fork in something without clear conviction.
USADA certainly can't punish an athlete based on one photo, but I would hope they have some kind of power to request medical records once they have that kind of photo in hand. If they had the photo in hand, and their only response was to increase the frequency with which they tested Rupp, what's the point having a USADA at all?
And the BBC didn't ruin Mo - they went after Mo, found nothing and had to settle for ruining Rupp. It is, in fact, kind of crazy that Mo is getting so much flak because of a documentary that DIDN'T turn up any wrong doing on his part. [which, btw, in no way means I think Mo doesn't use PEDs - if I had to bet one way or the other, I'd bet that yes, he does use PEDs and has been since before he joined NOP.]
dkny64 wrote:
Roelants wrote:I think the relevant question is what USADA did witht the information.
Agreed, but I think we need to know exactly what info Magness provided - was it just verbal, or did he send them the photo?
If the info they received was just verbal, I can see why USADA would have decided to tread lightly. If Magness sent them the photo, I'm disturbed that so little has been done.
Why? What would USADA do about it exactly? They don't have any authority and certainly nothing like the numbers of athletes that finally got Armstrong sanctioned to do anything again.
If your task is to create uncertainty about Nike's doping program, then good job.
If USADA had this "evidence" since late 2012, then it is approaching 3 years since then. If they are doing their job, it is reasonable to conclude that Rupp/Salazar have been targeted with OOCT and other investigations.
And since they're still running/training, perhaps they found nothing, and he is clean!
I imagine the last thing Magness wanted to do was go public. He went privately to USADA 3 years ago probably hoping they would do something about the situation that obviously he was uncomfortable with. When no investigation resulted, he was forced to go public. Not equating the two, but same way Edward Snowden went public when he was uncomfortable with the illegal government surveillance he witnessed.
The Apologist wrote:
And since they're still running/training, perhaps they found nothing, and he is clean!
You very well could be right about the investigation. I would only point out that "they found nothing" does not imply "he is clean."
It simply means that he is clean according to the rules of USADA. That is very different from being clean as matter of fact. After all, Lance...blah...blah.
The Apologist wrote:
If USADA had this "evidence" since late 2012, then it is approaching 3 years since then. If they are doing their job, it is reasonable to conclude that Rupp/Salazar have been targeted with OOCT and other investigations.
And since they're still running/training, perhaps they found nothing, and he is clean!
But we are all so certain that he's not clean because he's not and there's a picture of a chart from 2002 and there's even more circumstantial evidence and none of us know anything (other Han our opinions) but we are certain!!!
Devil Dog wrote:
Perhaps because it took that long to create a document that when flashed in a documentary for a few seconds might appear to be legit by the masses.
I don't for a minute think Magness doctored the document. I do think it is interesting that a sheet of paper with a graph and some notes about altitude tent usage has suddenly been deemed some highly specialized medical document that has no chance of having an error/misunderstanding on it. We have no idea who wrote that line. Was it a tech who heard testoboost and re-worded it?
Some criticize anyone who thinks there is at least a chance it is a mis-wording, but if they were in the habit of blatantly listing the use of banned substances on documents it would seem there would be something else that Magness or someone else would have seen. We're talking about one footnote on a lab/athlete note sheet. This isn't a written prescription.
Clearly Salazar is detail oriented. If you're truly open to all options, I think you have to wonder why he would be putting explicit banned substances on an athlete's record.
The Apologist wrote:
And since they're still running/training, perhaps they found nothing, and he is clean!
It took more than seven years after Armstrong stopped competing to finally trap him.
dkny64 wrote:
USADA certainly can't punish an athlete based on one photo, but I would hope they have some kind of power to request medical records once they have that kind of photo in hand. If they had the photo in hand, and their only response was to increase the frequency with which they tested Rupp, what's the point having a USADA at all?
My memory is hazy, but from what I remember of the Lance scandal, if USADA has any power to request documents, they are very limited. They really are set up to do drug tests.
Maybe someone could go look at the rules and see what they say.
You might also look to see if the rules have any time limits on prosecuting violations. That document is 12 or 13 years old. There are very few crimes that you can be charged with 12 or 13 years later..
dkny64 wrote:
If the info they received was just verbal, I can see why USADA would have decided to tread lightly. If Magness sent them the photo, I'm disturbed that so little has been done.
The story doesn't say he actually contacted them. or if he did, what they did with the information.
It says he "decided to contact them and share what he'd seen".
Randy Oldman wrote:
dkny64 wrote:If the info they received was just verbal, I can see why USADA would have decided to tread lightly. If Magness sent them the photo, I'm disturbed that so little has been done.
The story doesn't say he actually contacted them. or if he did, what they did with the information.
It says he "decided to contact them and share what he'd seen".
Seems like a follow-up interview with Steve Magness is in order.
Les wrote:
He went privately to USADA 3 years ago probably hoping they would do something about the situation that obviously he was uncomfortable with. When no investigation resulted, he was forced to go public. Not equating the two, but same way Edward Snowden went public when he was uncomfortable with the illegal government surveillance he witnessed.
I agree with your bigger point, but I think you should have said, "When no charges resulted," rather than "When no investigation resulted." After all, USADA could have investigated and decided the evidence was not enough to support charging NOP with doping.
As several posters have pointed out, in the last two years, Galen appears to be the most tested track athlete. I would not be surprised if this was a direct result of the allegations by Magness.
PS The document Magness took to the USADA is from 2002. That is so long ago that USADA might not be able to use it as evidence of a doping violation. If so, then all they can do with it is launch an investigation.
If (big if) the document isn't discredited or swept under the rug, if I'm Rupp I'm lining my attorneys for a HIPAA case against Magness. Or it may have to be against Nike since they didn't protect his information well enough. Of course, those cases don't generally go very far and only 1 case appeared to get a good monetary settlement ($865,000) per Wikapedia. Probably small potatoes to him. I know it is to all of Let's Run.
A small point wrote:
Les wrote:He went privately to USADA 3 years ago probably hoping they would do something about the situation that obviously he was uncomfortable with. When no investigation resulted, he was forced to go public. Not equating the two, but same way Edward Snowden went public when he was uncomfortable with the illegal government surveillance he witnessed.
I agree with your bigger point, but I think you should have said, "When no charges resulted," rather than "When no investigation resulted." After all, USADA could have investigated and decided the evidence was not enough to support charging NOP with doping.
As several posters have pointed out, in the last two years, Galen appears to be the most tested track athlete. I would not be surprised if this was a direct result of the allegations by Magness.
PS The document Magness took to the USADA is from 2002. That is so long ago that USADA might not be able to use it as evidence of a doping violation. If so, then all they can do with it is launch an investigation.
All true. I'd like to know if any investigation actually was launched, but I doubt we're going to hear anything from USADA on that front.
Still, there's no reason why someone couldn't do a follow-up interview with Magness to find out exactly what information he shared with USADA and in what form. [for all I know, Epstein has the details in his notes.]
Guess I could try e-mailing Magness myself. Have to think about that.
A small point wrote:
PS The document Magness took to the USADA is from 2002. That is so long ago that USADA might not be able to use it as evidence of a doping violation. If so, then all they can do with it is launch an investigation.
Armstrong was past the statute of limits. But, the statute doesn't apply when there is wrong doing.
HIPAA wrote:
If (big if) the document isn't discredited or swept under the rug, if I'm Rupp I'm lining my attorneys for a HIPAA case against Magness. Or it may have to be against Nike since they didn't protect his information well enough. Of course, those cases don't generally go very far and only 1 case appeared to get a good monetary settlement ($865,000) per Wikapedia. Probably small potatoes to him. I know it is to all of Let's Run.
There is no HIPAA case here. This has been discussed at length elsewhere on this board. The short version is that HIPAA does not prohibit everyone from disclosing health records. It only prohibits certain classes of people (basically Health Care Providers or Insurers) from disclosing medical records. Since Magness was not in any of the covered classes, HIPAA does not apply to him.