Salazar, Farah, talk about use of L-carnitine, a legal supplement with 11% performance gains

"That stuff doesn't do di*k."

A peer-reviwed scientific research paper proves your statement is false.

That stuff doesn't do d*** wrote:

"That stuff doesn't do di*k."

A peer-reviwed scientific research paper proves your statement is false.

Go take it, you can buy it anywhere and it is perfectly legal. It's an amino acid for crying out loud. It's not some big scary compound that has ridiculous side effects. It doesn't work as claimed. Research can say one thing, but in the real world, on a well trained athlete, that stuff doesn't do dick.

All this fluff boils down to an advertisement for this supplement.Now ppl are going to go out there and buy this shit because Mo took it. Maybe just maybe it will make you just as fast as him! Whoopy!

You got it wrong. Xenon gas was not illegal, but was banned by WADA, not because of proof of performance enhancement, but because of the known potential for side-effects. L-carnitine has the same side-effect potential, and a published research report to backup the claims of performance enhancement.

"Research can say one thing, but in the real world, on a well trained athlete, that stuff doesn't do dick." This statement proves you are trolling. The research results are based on a detailed analysis of trained athletes using, and not using, the supplement. Your result is based on your personal opinion.

This is just to cover up the real stuff that is making them good... their good ol Doc Brown, their endocrinologist...

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/is-thyroid-replacement-a-performance-enhancing-drug/

I got no dog in this fight, but here are a two peer reviewed papers that show how similar legal substances improve performance. Just pick your line and don't cross it. if you need more stringent rules, if it's banned by WADA or USADA, don't cross it. Either way, is still stand by my original post, this is a non story, but I'm sure Nutramet will make some extra money.

Beet Juice (15% gain)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4008816/

Caffeine:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19088794

Don't forget that sports drinks like Gatorade or Powerade (countless scholar articles on how CO and sodium) have shown big performance gains in the lab. Should we stop even using flat Coke for marathon racing (caffeine and sugar!)

Just to add, potassium supplementation, along with many other types of minerals, does improve some elements of recovery (many peer reviewed studies) - so indirectly, that may improve performance.

I could go on but I gotta roll.

"L-carnitine can cause side effects such as nausea, vomiting, stomach upset, heartburn, diarrhea, and seizures."

Your research paper links make no statement of similar negative ill-effects for beet juice or caffeine.

This stuff is light years away from xenon gas, which actually worked and is significantly more dangerous. You're being ridiculous. Research the stuff, it's nothing more then pseudo science bullshit.

@ Fart nugget cheese fries

Try posting a counterpoint that is not your personal opinion.

does this really surprise anyone?

sleazy is and always has been dirty

Former athletes at the Nike Oregon Project have described unease in the camp when L-carnitine was tested using injections. It is understood that two former members of the project contacted the US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) with concerns over its use. The USADA declined to say if it is investigating.

Can we please have a seperate informercial page for the manufacturers of supplements to get on a promote/sell their snake oil?? Have conversations amongst themselves, make inuendos and draw BS conclusions about MO taking their suplements, etc.

That would be good so people don't mistake a sales pitch for an actual LRC discussion.

Researched wrote:

"L-carnitine can cause side effects such as nausea, vomiting, stomach upset, heartburn, diarrhea, and seizures."

Your research paper links make no statement of similar negative ill-effects for beet juice or caffeine.

If you think that's bad, check out this nasty drug!

A fast heart rate

Anxiety

Depression

Difficulty sleeping

Nausea

Restlessness

Tremors

Urinating more often

Vomiting

Drowsiness

Headaches

Irritability

Nausea

Vomiting

Large amounts may stop the absorption of calcium and cause lead to thinning bones (osteoporosis).

May lead to painful, lumpy breasts (fibrocystic disease).

(Caffeine)

Above a certain dose, caffine is illegal.

...

Cycling has a no-needles policy. My personal opinion is that we should have one in athletics, too.

...

This isn't a non story. These articles add insight to the culture if NOP. The ethical dilema of athletes in the camp is a story. The energing contradictions are also a story.

And what if certain supplaments become illegal?

Kinmage had a great line this morning: "are you clean?"

"Yes"

"what does that mean?"

The hatred for and resentment of Salazar and anyone associated with him is of course old news on here, but I remain unpersuaded by such expressions and their accompanying accusations, and in this particular case I am not persuaded that supplementing with a legal, and WADA-legal, fully available to anyone, amino acid is sleazy or unethical, or cheating. There are substances that are prohibited and those that are not. L-carnitine is acceptable, so trying it is not cheating. And so what if there are a few possible side effects associated with its use -- those stated here are associated with ingesting pretty much anything, legal or not, food or not.

There are also known benefits and possible side effects training at altitude (headaches, shortness of breath, nausea). Moreover, altitude training is not available to every athlete -- depends on the resources you have. So, not everyone has the opportunity to train at altitude, but that does not make those who do so sleazy, unethical, cheaters, etc. I suppose, in this morally perfectionist world of LRC, a truly 'ethical' athlete or coach would refrain from altitude training because (a) it has known benefits, (b) it has some associated risks, and (c) not everyone has access to it.

I would like to get cheaters out of this sport, but I don't see how accusing pretty much everyone of cheating facilitates the actual identification of cheaters. It doesn't even make the "I told you so" game very interesting.

harrison bergeron wrote:

jjjjjj wrote:

11% would have been an improvement by Farah of over a minute in a 5000m. He improved in 2011 by maybe ten to twelve seconds. But it doesn't surprise me that Salazar's looking for every legal means of improvement for his runners. He has always said this. But if it does result in an improvement of 2% even, it should probably be banned.

Why?

Good question. Performance probably improves by more than 2% if you eat a balanced diet rather than starving. I guess eating a balanced diet should be banned too.

You are confusing drug/stimulate abuse with ill side-effects caused by recommended levels of use (per the researcher's paper).

The interesting question here is "gray zone." Not illegal now, but should be, or will be, illegal. Unfortunately, there don't seem to any rules for pre-use of something made illegal. The end result is that gray zone use is given a green light to use. This use of supplements, etc., should be prevented before the official ban.

This L-carnitine has real research backing up performance gains. So, coaches and athletes using it should have ceased immediately. It appears that the Salazar purchased a lot of L-carnitine based on the published research report, and started using it after the fact.

L-carnitine wrote:

If L-carnitine is legal why isn't every athlete using it? This seems like exactly the type of supplement that WADA should ban, because of the potential health risks involved.

"l-carnitine Side Effects & Safety. L-carnitine is LIKELY SAFE for most people when taken by mouth and when used as an injection, with the approval of a healthcare provider. It can cause side effects such as nausea, vomiting, stomach upset, heartburn, diarrhea, and seizures."

I'd let this play out; the manufacturers claim of 11% performance gains...what incentive would the maker have to exaggerate...

Researched wrote:

You are confusing drug/stimulate abuse with ill side-effects caused by recommended levels of use (per the researcher's paper).

There are all kinds of side effects experienced by people at varying levels of coffee/caffeine consumption. See

for a pretty long list. Your conflating use with abuse without any substantiation (please cite the scientific research clearly demonstrating that no one will experience ill effects from consumption of moderate levels of caffeine).

You are trying too hard here to assert the "dangers" of L-Carnitine as dispositive for banning it. WADA and USADA have NOT banned it, stop with the "researched" bunk, there isn't anything there.