why does what they do in a workout matter; as long as they're getting race results, who cares! I couldn't imagine that kind of workout but I also don't have the genetics that the elites do. Besides, Quenton Cassidy used to do 60 x 400 and he ended up ok. Sure he had to be helped into bed but he won a medal didn't he?
no they can't wrote:
Everyone here says that 10x400 with 1:00 rest is the ultimate predictor of 1500/mile ability, like it's the gospel or something.
3:28 for 1500 is 55.46 seconds per 400.
Are you trying to tell me these guys could run TEN 55-second 400s in a row with just 1:00 rest between them??
NO, THEY COULDN'T.
I'm not entirely sure why it matters. These guys are all World Class athletes, with WC and OC medals to go around. Why is ANY workout more impressive than that? As for adding to the discussion, I don't think the workout (10x400m @ mile pace w/ 60s rest) sounds un-doable.
You are right - 10x400m (60sec rec) is a very good pace predictor for the mile. Given the rep times quoted we can all look forward to a 3:41 mile in the summer!
Aren't You Clever wrote:
no they can't wrote:Just look at this workout:
http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/251075-Workout-Wednesday-Season-8/video/730801-Rupp-Levins-Cain-and-Moser-Huge-workout-after-BU-RecordsmovRupp and Levins:
2 x 800/400 (2:00/54)
2-3 x 400 (54s)
And this is with MASSIVE REST. Rupp BAILS on the last 400.
And you're saying he can do 10 400s straight at 1:00 rest??
BS.
NOBODY can do 10x400 at an ELITE race pace with a TRUE 1:00 rest. There is no proof of elites managing this. Amateurs who have just haven't raced near their potential yet so they don't even know real RACE PACE.
Wasn't the the workout after his 5k? He ran a 13:01 like half an hour beforehand, dumb ass.
Youre right, Rupp had literally just run a 13:01 indoor 5000 about 15 before hand. And he was having stomach issues, it had nothing to do with ability.
Randy Oldman wrote:
kfqqq wrote:I just did the equivalent for myself. I ran 3:58, that breaks down to 63.5 for 400m. I could run 10 x 63 with 60sec rest, so it's possible the guys could do that.. remember, it's anaerobic so it's mainly muscular strength.
45% aerobic (probably 90% in my case).
A single all-out 400 is about half aerobic. Ten 400's on short rest is far more aerobic than that, for anyone.
Other than a predictor, the value of the workout is to train your aerobic system to contribute more to race pace by shutting down the anaerobic contribution. Indirectly that can make the anaerobic contribution more efficient as it adapts to last longer.
NOP Skeptic wrote:
Rupp has done 20 x 400m at 57 seconds, 1 min rest, at 7000ft ALTITUDE, I'm pretty sure he can do half that at 55 secs while at sea level, which means, I'm pretty sure Farah could do it
Considering Kiprop was doing 3:24 1500m training I have to imagine he could do this...
I'm not too sure about Centro though...
youre an idiot if you believe that. an IDIOT
No 1:49/3:42 guys can run 12x300 with 45-50sec rest and average 39sec. I'd venture to say they'd struggle to run 12x200m at the same pace (26) with 45sec rest. They may have finished the last repeat in 39, but there is no way they averaged 39!
I've seen 3:28-3:32 guys do 12x300 in sets of 4 (3x4x300) and only ave 41sec. 41.23 is what I have written in my diary (I averaged 42.18)
Looks at this example for a 3:32 guys - slighly shorter rest, but again, he was only doing sets of 3x300 and was ave 40-41sec.
July 25/1990 - 3 x 3 x 300m rec. 30" w/800 btw sets(39”2 – 42” – 41”8 * 40”5 – 41”8 – 41”8 * 41”5 – 40” – 39”2)
JRinaldi wrote:
No 1:49/3:42 guys can run 12x300 with 45-50sec rest and average 39sec. I'd venture to say they'd struggle to run 12x200m at the same pace (26) with 45sec rest. They may have finished the last repeat in 39, but there is no way they averaged 39!
I've seen 3:28-3:32 guys do 12x300 in sets of 4 (3x4x300) and only ave 41sec. 41.23 is what I have written in my diary (I averaged 42.18)
Looks at this example for a 3:32 guys - slighly shorter rest, but again, he was only doing sets of 3x300 and was ave 40-41sec.
July 25/1990 - 3 x 3 x 300m rec. 30" w/800 btw sets(39”2 – 42” – 41”8 * 40”5 – 41”8 – 41”8 * 41”5 – 40” – 39”2)
Thank you JRinaldi. you're a coach, who knows what he's talking about! who's got great experience and currently coaches a 1:44 guy. The other guy is lying to us. a 1:49 guy would even struggle to complete a work out of 12X300 with 2:00-3:00 minutes recovery at an average of 39
Uhhhh, just because YOU can't fathom it in no way does it mean that it can't be done. You're overthinking your running. I can almost guarantee it.
here is an actual work out done by 1:42 man Wilfred Bungei in the summer of 2008 before winning the olympic gold medal:
2X(4X300)
40.2 recovery 3' minutes
39.3 recovery 4' minutes
38.6 recovery 5' minutes
37.1 recovery 7 minutes
40.9 recovery 4' minutes
39.2 recovery 5' minutes
37.8 recovery 7 minutes
36.8
hahahaha wrote:
Former coach here.
I had a 13:50 runner (workout warrior) who ran 20*400m in 60.9 with 59 seconds rest. He had zero foot speed.
A 1:49/2:20/3:42 guy would run12*300s in 39 avg with 45-50 seconds rest walk.
You'd be surprised what good runners do in workouts. You'd be even more suprised what great ones do.
By "rest" did they just stand between reps? Or jog/walk?
You guys make me laugh.
The coach is right. Even guys that have no leg speed, can do real workouts. I had no leg speed. I did 20 x 400 at 62 with a 45 sec jog. My bests were 4:11, 8:43 (2m), 13:39 and 28:21.
BTW, I could finish the last 400 of any race close to my 400 PR (58 vs. 56). Such is the life of a guy with no leg speed but a LOT of strength.
Back in 1998 I witnessed former George mason milers Julius Achon and Ibrahim Aden run a workout with former OK state runner Jon Wild. Wild was a little bit behind the other two but not by much. They ran 12 x 400 in 56-57 with a minute rest and the last 2 were in the 54-55 range. I couldn't believe my eyes. I was 18 and had just done a workout with their coach minutes before, 8 x 400 in like 63-64, it was funny cuz I remember being more disheartened than inspired by what I saw because I knew I would never be able to do that. Stopped running competitively shortly after that. The point is that if those guys could do 12 in 56-57 (again, saw with my own eyes) I'm pretty sure that Rupp, Farah and especially Kiprop could do 10 in 55.
Standing rest, 2 minute clock for the start. So if you average 60.9 you start every 59.1 seocnds. His name was Zac Edwards by them way and I looked back at his log he only ran 19 that day, we cut the last one. Goal was 62sThe 300m workout, his name was Saber Salah,I am looking for his workout log tonight, it is on my other computer, but he averaged under 40 for 12x300m. You are not proving your point either as we timed every rest period. How do you think we knew to tell him to not start too soon on the first few intervals and to get to the line quicker on the last few? We weren't guessing. Right next to him was a 3:36 1500m runner, who on that day, struggled to keep up.
lol lol lol lol wrote:
hahahaha wrote:Former coach here.
I had a 13:50 runner (workout warrior) who ran 20*400m in 60.9 with 59 seconds rest. He had zero foot speed.
A 1:49/2:20/3:42 guy would run12*300s in 39 avg with 45-50 seconds rest walk.
You'd be surprised what good runners do in workouts. You'd be even more suprised what great ones do.
By "rest" did they just stand between reps? Or jog/walk?
Not sure if Rupp could do 10 x 55'' (because he doesn't seem a 3:27 man, more like low 3:30s), but Kiprop could do that for sure. 10 x 400 in 55'' with 1' rest. Just remember. He's the best in the world right now.
But some other training programs here seem over the top or bullsh... I have seen a 3:33 1500 m runner TRY 2 x 4 x 300 in 39. With long rests (3'r and 8' between sets). And he didn't make it past nr. 6. Nr. 7 he dnf-ed with like 20 mmol lactate ;-) Btw he was good in the 5000, too, so he definitely had some endurance. So you go figure in the 12 x 300s in 39 with less than a minute rest for some 1:49 / 3:42 type runner.
Pikachu
theres a video of rob mullett doing 10 or 12x400 in close to 60 off a minute. hes a 3-42 guy. he ran the session alone so reckon farah etc could easily run this workout
When did Centro & Rupp run 3:28?[/quote]
Exactly
He just ran a indoor 5k AR of 13:01 20 minutes before and you know that, why would you even post this knowing that? And then you don't even mention it...
Then the next week he runs the indoor 2M AR at 8:07 and does 5 x mile w/ at 4:13.6 avg (13:02 5k pace) w/ a 4:01 last mile, and you still think Rupp can't crush 10 x 400m at 55 1 min rest FRESH?
Patrick Starr wrote:
NOP Skeptic wrote:Rupp has done 20 x 400m at 57 seconds, 1 min rest, at 7000ft ALTITUDE, I'm pretty sure he can do half that at 55 secs while at sea level, which means, I'm pretty sure Farah could do it
Considering Kiprop was doing 3:24 1500m training I have to imagine he could do this...
I'm not too sure about Centro though...
youre an idiot if you believe that. an IDIOT
Funny how you call me an IDIOT, but you don't even give a reason to why you think I'm wrong, I'd sure like to hear an explanation from you...
no they can't wrote:
NOP Skeptic wrote:Rupp has done 20 x 400m at 57 seconds, 1 min rest, at 7000ft ALTITUDE
Source?
I believe it's in this video
http://www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=13&do=videos&video_id=77599