3x600..killer workout

NotPossible wrote:

2.00-2.02? This is non possible. I know people who had ran 1.27/8 in a race and then just a couple of weeks later ran 2.00/2.01. 1.24 TT in training already means AT LEAST 1.58 in my opinion. He ran 1.29 5 minutes after (and this is again sub 2.00 pace)... I'd say he can run AT LEAST 1.55.

I think he was trolling the OP with the 2:00-2:02. I have never broken 1:30 in a 600 TT and can run 2:02 in a race, but I am a 1500-5k guy. Anyways, I think the OP could run 1:55 right now in a good race, on a good track.

Splits something like this:

27.5

28.5 ( 56.0)

29.5 ( 1:25.5)

29.5 (1:55)

I think a 56 first 400 should be really comfortable for his speed and I would be surprised if he couldn't come back in under a minute.

3x600m with a few 200´s were a tough session, and usually the typical form on the day isn´t perfect. some here might disagree, but i think you are capable of a 1:55. don´t run the first lap too fast and make it happen.

highly recommended is a workout of 6x400m/2mins rest at real 800m goal pace. every single one clearly sub 58s and there you are. 2mins rest is just right for this workout. my coach is no friend of speed intervals with a very short rest like 60s for example. i think he is right. in most cases it leaves the athlet in frustration and/or hangover.

about mileage: even as a 800m runner you should throw in regular hard aerobic stuff at true 3k or 5k pace.

I'm glad somebody already pointed out that this guy is clueless and you shouldn't listen to him.

We used to do that 20x200 workout with 30 seconds rest. However we ran as many as we could at 27-28. Some people went to 12 and others made it to 20. I think that would be a better indicator as it is closer to race pace for you.

lol at the true distance guys who don't think OP can run sub-1:58 right now.

He just went 3/4's of his race distance in 1:24 in a workout. He can absolutely come through the 600 in 1:24-25 in a race, and run a 30-31 last 200.

OP: I actually kind of like your 3x600 workout. I like that the first one was at race pace, and then you ran another 600 at ~2nd lap pace for the 800. Seems like a very good race simulation to me. Personally I wouldn't have done a 3rd 600, and I'm sure you know that now too. Next time finish with 1 or 2 200's and then call it a day. 2x600 @800 pace is a bear of a workout.

As for other workouts to try, I had success last year with 2x300 fast w/3min rest, then 2x200. Run the 300's a little quicker than 1st lap 800 pace, and the 200's in whatever you can manage.

Very difficult to predict race performances off work outs. When going really well I could run 4 600's in 86 each off 5 mins, and that told me I was in sub 3.45 1500m shape. However, I was only marginally faster than the OP over 800m. I'd agree though - given his apparent lack of endurance, I'd be surprised if he couldn't go 154 right now

Oh boy! Distance guys are at it again.

Agree with a few of the posters - 2 reps would have been plenty, and even more recovery beneficial (maybe 10 minutes) as these are truly time-trials at 800m pace for the OP. The third gets up to being at close to mile/1500m pace for the OP, where 4 reps at this pace (3-5 minutes recovery) would have been appropriate.

As to the 200's, high volume sets or one long set are good for speed- endurance development for a 800m runner (see Coe or Kipketer). 30 sec recovery is very short and impressive - I coach a rising HS Senior who ran 1.50 last year off a 49sec 400, and there is no way that he could have done that volume with that little recovery.

My advice - OP doesn't say if they are a College runner or HS or location either, so not sure why this quality of training is necessary at this time of year - is to look at Jack Daniel's charts for a 400/800 or even 800/1500 runner and use these as basis for establishing Date pace and Goal pace. There shouldn't be a lot of guess-work about what you are trying to do in a workout, and erring on the side of caution if this is early in the year (my athlete is aiming for Pan Am Jnrs at the end of July so no way I want him doing really high quality training now) for the OP is also warranted. Go to the sub-1.50 thread (as a 49sec guy that is where you should be aiming next year -2015- anyway) as there is a huge background of training information there. Most of what has been mentioned here has been covered in greater detail there.

It is all pretty simple. Date Pace quality is about what you have done, and goal pace is about what you are trying to get to at the end of the season. The devil is in the details as they say. The poster who ran too high quality in sessions is reflective of the problems of training groups when coaches don't or can't control specific intensity - sessions simply become pseudo-races where development is stunted because that intensity is inappropriate. I would rather an athlete train solo (as does mine) in order to train at an appropriate intensiity than simply line up and race repeats in workouts as is too often the case in many HS, and even College, programs.

Then you're not running enough of it (miles) year round.

Your workout predicts a 1:57-58 for starters.

Once the season starts let the weekly races take you to 1:55 or better. Let the speed work ( and damn little of it ) keep you sharp.

I did a 2x600 (for the first time) in HS with 10 minutes rest in 1:30 and 1:34. Ran 2:01 the next week.

runfasterrrr wrote:

Or any workout suggestions to make this a better workout? I know seb coe used to run longer workouts like this. Specific endurance stuff, but I feel like I fell off way to much on the last one.

If you are working on endurance, then you need to run 4 x 600m with only 400m jog and also run them in cut down fashion.

1:35

1:32

1:29

1:27

if you can run that controlled, meaning not fading the last 200m, then you will get accustomed to cruising thru 500m and then being able to get down to serious business the last 300m.

make it happen wrote:

3x600m with a few 200´s were a tough session, and usually the typical form on the day isn´t perfect. some here might disagree, but i think you are capable of a 1:55. don´t run the first lap too fast and make it happen.

highly recommended is a workout of 6x400m/2mins rest at real 800m goal pace. every single one clearly sub 58s and there you are. 2mins rest is just right for this workout. my coach is no friend of speed intervals with a very short rest like 60s for example. i think he is right. in most cases it leaves the athlet in frustration and/or hangover.

about mileage: even as a 800m runner you should throw in regular hard aerobic stuff at true 3k or 5k pace.

I second the 1:55, I'd say op is in 1:54-55 shape right now. As for the 6x400@800pace w/2min rest...no way I'd hit 800pace in that workout. Maybe for the first 3-4, after that I'd be slowing way down. And I'm more of a strength based 800 guy.

letsbang wrote:

I second the 1:55, I'd say op is in 1:54-55 shape right now. As for the 6x400@800pace w/2min rest...no way I'd hit 800pace in that workout. Maybe for the first 3-4, after that I'd be slowing way down. And I'm more of a strength based 800 guy.

this session is always brutal. when i ran it for the first time the coach introduced it with 3min rest, with an emphasis on keeping the pace and running as relaxed as possible. i failed tremendously. i got detention for weeks: lots of plyos/jumps, hill work and - very important - i had to hammer lots of hilly 3-4mile runs, added forceful strides afterwards. that helped.

there are many great workouts, but i consider 6x400@800pace w/2min rest as a key session (i think, jumbo elliott´s idea?), to be repeated even in the winter w/3min rest quite regularly to stay in touch with race feelings.

Ran another workout today that I heard was a good predictor workout for the 800. It was 8x200 with 30 second rest. Averaged right at 28 flat for the middle 6. With the first and last at 26.

I ran this workout in 1:29, 1:29, 1:28 around the time I ran 1:54. I probably could have run the first one in 1:24 but then I would've died a horrible death by the end, like you. I'm not sure I would've been able to run the second one in 1:29 after a 1:24. My PR was only 1:21.

Is the 200 workout a better predictor?

From what I've heard is the 8x200 with 30 second is how the kenyans predict potential in the 800

I agree with this. I recall doing 4x400 on 3-4m rest @800 pace and finding it pretty tough

Have we gone to bizarro letsrun.com world? 3x600 is a super hard workout? That is only 1.8km total. How can that be super hard? Even if each rep was at max pace and the rest minimal, it's like doing a mile time trial. Hard, but most workouts in the 5k/10k world make that a walk in the park.

bizarro world wrote:

Have we gone to bizarro letsrun.com world? 3x600 is a super hard workout? That is only 1.8km total. How can that be super hard? Even if each rep was at max pace and the rest minimal, it's like doing a mile time trial. Hard, but most workouts in the 5k/10k world make that a walk in the park.

Are you serious? 600 is a totally different animal vs a mile. At least if you have any fast twitch fibers in you.

The 3x600 suggests a 1:54. The 8x200 indicates a lot better, I'd say 1:52. I only managed 5 reps at 29-28 when I ran 1:55.

Another good indicator workout is 600+200 / 30" executed 14-10 days before the race.

Remember to update with the results!