German's back baby!! 3rd at 2014 Club Nats

"Talent doesn't go away" - blah, blah, blah - please stop repeating that!!!

The only thing holding German back is past injury. If he pushes too hard in training, it flares up again on that leg, so he has to do just enough to stay in the mix but not too much that he sidelines himself yet again! He's going for Rio 2016, so staying in shape until that prep time is paramount. If he blows out a finish and crushes the competition, he'll risk fu$∂ø.king injury yet again, so don't expect to see him sprinting ahead anytime soon until that damn leg is secure!

Great post.

If Man wrote:

fan of german/rojo wrote:

Repeat after rojo people, "Talent doesn't go away."

It hibernated in this case but it's still there!!!

If talent doesn't go away why aren't Jim Ryun, Lasse Viren and Henry Rono still world beaters?

Ryun, Viren, and Rono's talent didn't go away. They just had other things come up ... namely age, retirement from the sport, stopping training.

The idea of "talent doesn't go away" isn't to say that talented people can run fast at any point in their life no matter the circumstance, it's to say that when they get good conditions in their running life, their talent will re-assert itself no matter what setbacks they had in the intervening time.

semi-talented wrote:

Ryun, Viren, and Rono's talent didn't go away. They just had other things come up ... namely age, retirement from the sport, stopping training.

The idea of "talent doesn't go away" isn't to say that talented people can run fast at any point in their life no matter the circumstance, it's to say that when they get good conditions in their running life, their talent will re-assert itself no matter what setbacks they had in the intervening time.

And it is fundamentally WRONG. As has been posted on this thread already, one's talent level changes EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Thinking that someone who performs exceptionally well at one age will necessarily be capable of exceptional performance a few years down the line (even just 3 - 4 years) as long as they are healthy, motivated and training well is simply INCORRECT.

Everyone's body is constantly in flux. Therefore, everyone's talent level is as well.

German is 24 and hasn't put on significant weight. There is no reason he shouldn't be as good or better than he ever was if he can remain consistent.

Talent being in flux is unfortunately largely determined by weight gain and other nutritional imbalances that are different from when the athlete was in peak condition.

There is no reason to think German is less talented than before, he just needs to eat right and do what he can to otherwise stay healthy.

Yes but you act like "eating right" is as simple as three squares and a few powerbars.

There are many rumors (this could be a where there is smoke there is fire situation) that many of German's issues began when he stopped eating meat at OSU and became severely anemic.

There was a poster above who said he has some recurring leg injury (first I've heard) that flares up every time he pushes too much.

Then there is something that I've observed as a student of the sport who had followed this particular fellow closely for the last 6+ years. His confidence has majorly wavered during many of his down cycles (which unfortunately seem to have been more frequent and longer in more recent years). I'm not condemning the kid because I think many would have quit the sport completely by now, but that's a factor too.

So, the notion of "talent doesn't go away" and then following it up with "if he eats right and is healthy" just seems silly to me. A 24 year old German who has had major eating/iron issues, who supposedly can't run too much/too hard and who often sounds like he feels that he just doesn't have it anymore just isn't the same as a 19 year old who has no fear and just ripped the NCAA apart in his only year of competition.

As a fan, I hope the last paragraph is wrong, but it's going to take more than an occasional result (euro 1500) and/or a handful of decent results in some B level US races to convince me so.

Also, look at Alan Webb's sad last few years as another exception to the talent doesn't go away rule.

This guy was probably the most talented and competitive US MD athlete in decades and at a time when he should have been in his prime he was at his worst. He couldn't stay with a coach, couldn't put together a full race and all

In all just seemed like he was a basket case.

It's easy to say "if he just got his s*** together he would be fast", but those of us closer to the situation just say a different athlete/person. He trained as hard as ever, but he looked like he was running in quicksand.

For whatever reason, whatever he had when he ran 3:53 and what propelled him to 3:46 just isn't there anymore.

Alan's case is even weirder because he had full season long breakdowns while at his best. Back then he'd shut it down, take the break, build back up and be as good as ever. But later in his career it was just too much and after his break he'd be in a worse spot.

It's just mind blowing that a guy could run 3:46 in 2007 and then, despite being in great shape, not be able to start a race until a week before the trials in 2008.

fan of german/rojo wrote:

Repeat after rojo people, "Talent doesn't go away."

It hibernated in this case but it's still there!!!

It did with Webb.

He did have lots of encouraging races though. Let's see is German can do anything on the track and beat his times set as a kid

Well, the thing about Webb IS that he changed coaches multiple times and that he DID train too hard. Too many coaching changes and training too hard is not a good thing. Sometimes it takes years with a new coach to fully adapt to their training programs and for the coach to understand the athlete and in Webb's case when to hold him back and when to let him go. Salazar even says it takes most athletes 1 full year to get used to their training regime. I truly believe it was a mistake for him to leave the Oregon Project under Alberto Salazar. He had very promising results and I believe he was about to have a breakthrough with him before he left for Schumachers group. Schumacher probably let him do too much and push too hard (unknowingly) because once he joined that group it was all downhill from there! Not saying Schumacher is a bad coach because he has had success. I just don't think the match was right. Unfortunately I think Salazar would be a better coach for German as well I wish him the best of luck as I have also been a huge fan of him since high school.

WRONG again.

Obviously significant weight gain can be detrimental to distance running capability. However, to think that the human body is not CONSTANTLY changing in a myriad of other ways that can easily make the difference between potential greatness and perennial also-ran is naive and ignorant.

You Know Me wrote:

There are many rumors (this could be a where there is smoke there is fire situation) that many of German's issues began when he stopped eating meat at OSU and became severely anemic.

"You know me" must be Smith, still trying to blame German for his own inability to coach good runners, and for how he messed up German which is own asinine ideas about training and eating. Granted, he's a good recruiter.

I can't begin to tell you how ridiculous your comments are. For one, there is no chance that Smith ever posts on this site or cares what you think. There's a pretty long list of runners that have gone through there that I would argue had pretty successful careers. Vail, Lowe, Ferrell, etc.

I think German let all the expectations get to him, in my humble opinion. Setting a collegiate record as a freshman put tons of pressure on him. He was always waiting for something bad to happen. Example, the indoor 3k when his shoe came off 20 meters in. He could've continued. He chose to quit. I think Uceny is in that same boat.

Encouraging result as this shows he has built up good strength. He will need a good showing this track season given its a WC year.

hahahayourefunny wrote:

I can't begin to tell you how ridiculous your comments are. For one, there is no chance that Smith ever posts on this site or cares what you think.

The sucky thing about German and this talent debate is that even if talent doesn't go away and he one day gets back to his former (18 y/o) self, it won't be that great. I mean, it was really great when he was 18 and ran 13:25 and 3:55, but if he runs that now it would be a disappointment I think. What got us so excited about him was his potential.

So, I think for him to live up to his original hype and truly perform at a level that meets our original expectations, he will have to be a 13:00/3:50 guy or faster. The last couple videos I've seen of him, he is not the same runner. He no longer has that smooth effortless/powerful stride. Which I think will be key to his return to form.

It would be awesome if he made a comeback. I think he's one of the most talented runners I've ever seen. I agree that one of the keys is the return to that smooth stride he had before.

Isn't it crazy that the more success a person has and higher they set the expectations, the easier it is for us to label them a failure when they don't continue to break records? Especially on these boards.

Dumb question - is this a 10k xc pr for German?

29:15 at Chilepepper?

Victorious88 wrote:

The sucky thing about German and this talent debate is that even if talent doesn't go away and he one day gets back to his former (18 y/o) self, it won't be that great. I mean, it was really great when he was 18 and ran 13:25 and 3:55, but if he runs that now it would be a disappointment I think. What got us so excited about him was his potential.

So, I think for him to live up to his original hype and truly perform at a level that meets our original expectations, he will have to be a 13:00/3:50 guy or faster. The last couple videos I've seen of him, he is not the same runner. He no longer has that smooth effortless/powerful stride. Which I think will be key to his return to form.

Agreed. Many thought he had a chance to be significant on the world stage (I am guilty on this count). He is so far from that now that even with sustained health it is difficult to imagine him getting anywhere near relevant internationally. If he gets to 3:50 and/or 13:10 that is awesome for Joe Blow. But for German everybody would still be wondering what's wrong.