BREAKING NEWS! CYCLING IS DIRTY AS F*CK!
BREAKING NEWS! CYCLING IS DIRTY AS F*CK!
One of the MPCC’s rules states that if a team has two positive anti-doping tests in a 12-month period, it must sit out for eight days from the next WorldTour race.
Eight days, wow they really are getting serious. That's almost as much competition as Tyson Gay missed.
coach d wrote:
... elite athletes mainly improve endurance performance by changes in lactate threshold, lactate turn point, and work economy or efficiency. None of these is directly altered by erythropoietin.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/775767
[/quote]
Note the use of "directly".
Doping is not a problem, it is a solution.
Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:
Clerk wrote:All of this, and we now have a 2:02 marathoner.... At cycling know they have a problem, athletics is just like cycling was in the 90's happy to celebrate alien performances, without acknowledging that there is a problem.
Distance running has been seeing "alien performances" ever since serious prize $ came on the scene and the KEN and ETH runners started being recruited, and then participating, en masse. This has been going on for nearly about 20 years without a hint of a wide-spread doping conspiracy. In cycling, that rumors and signs were being heard and spotted for many, many years before they really came to light.
Of course there has been some doping by some athletes, but if the performances we've seen over the last 20 years are truly "alien" as you claim, then virtually ALL of these runners (and there are tons of them) would have to have been doped. To believe that is to be a.....dope.
All of the peleton was on Epo in the 90s when there was no test for EPO
meantime what was happening on the track?
NO EPO TEST+DODGY AGENTS AND COACHES +INCREDIBLE PERFORMANCES=?
Distance running has been seeing "alien performances" ever since serious prize $ came on the scene and the KEN and ETH runners started being recruited, and then participating, en masse. This has been going on for nearly about 20 years without a hint of a wide-spread doping conspiracy. In cycling, that rumors and signs were being heard and spotted for many, many years before they really came to light.
Of course there has been some doping by some athletes, but if the performances we've seen over the last 20 years are truly "alien" as you claim, then virtually ALL of these runners (and there are tons of them) would have to have been doped. To believe that is to be a.....dope.
Read more:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6052375&page=0#ixzz3Fk5hPPGR
They are alien. Distance running doesn't have the convenient metrics like VAM and w/kg, where a line is understood to define human potential. But, we have to use other implicit evidence. For me, the correlation between the rise of EPO and drop in times, with readjustments as things like the EPO test or ABP are introduced, is enough evidence that the last 20 years have been alien.
None of these is directly altered by erythropoietin.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/775767
Well duh, the only direct result of EPO is more blood cells; changes in hct. In fact, the only direct effect of training is fatigue. What matters is the indirect effects: improved performance because of more hgb. EPO--> improved blood volume --> improved hgb mass --> higher aerobic output --> performance.
So no, its not direct. For the same reason that bullets don't directly cause death.
Harddoper wrote:
Honestly, I don't think it's possible to win the TDF without some kind of doping.
That's the dopers mentality. I don't agree.
psychology wrote:
Harddoper wrote:Honestly, I don't think it's possible to win the TDF without some kind of doping.
That's the dopers mentality. I don't agree.
So you're saying Salazar is s doper?
Did he say that too? That it was impossible to win the Tour without dope?
I should have said That's the doper's mentality. I realize that missing an apostrophe is unacceptable.
Did he say that? When? Does he believe it now?
People change their opinions. Of course it is possible to be world class or to win and olympic medal without doping.
Athletes and journalists are easily brainwashed by bad science.
Whatever your thoughts about doping in sports you kinda have to respect Vino
He looks like a shark, acts like a shark, sounds like a shark, they even caught him and found him to be a shark...
He remains unapologetically Vino.
Compare that with Valverde for instance, who plays a ridiculous conspiracy card that he only got banned by the Italians because they wanted to get back at the Spanish for throwing Basso under the bus in the operation Puerto affair (which they did). And the Spanish press just laps it all up 'poor Alejandro', and never asked him any hard questions...
Recurring theme in Spanish mainstream press btw, dopers get never asked any tough questions, there always seems to be some weird sympathy 'oh, you don't get to go to the next big race/championship' instead of asking logical questions like
How did this instance get into your blood?
Isn't it normal that we're sceptical about that contaminated meat story since you're the n-th athlete working with doctor x, coach y, manager z that gets busted?
When did you start working with this doctor?
Who advised you to do so?
etc...
Wtf, ask lance armstrong if doping doesn't help. There're doping in every sport when there's money and fame at stake. Even in running, soccer, cycling, tennis, hockey, football etc etc. Don't be naive. Please.Profesional sport is a show, just relaxe and enjoy. You think the new marathon WR is clean? Welcome to the real world.
coach d wrote:
Is it a doping positive if it doesn't give performance improvement?
It just happens that Renato is right. There is evidence that EPO does not work for elite athletes. This comes from science done on cyclists.
The authors report the results of their systematic literature review in an article published online December 6 in the British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology. Their review uncovered a paucity of studies testing rHuEPO in elite athletes. A few studies involved subjects described as "endurance trained recreational athletes," "well-trained individuals," or "healthy subjects." In addition, study participants varied in terms of endurance performance and fitness level. None of the studies reported on competitive cyclists.
"'[T]he better the athlete is trained, a similar increase in VO2max leads to a proportionally smaller increase in performance," the authors explain. "This also demonstrates that in world-class athletes, an increase in VO2max will have only limited effect on performance."
The authors note that in elite endurance athletes, VO2max can be 50% to 100% greater than those in normal healthy young people, but that VO2max plateaus in elite athletes while performance continues to improve. They suggest that this may be because of other factors involved in endurance such as high muscle capillary density, muscle metabolic adaptations such as increased mitochondria and oxidative enzymes, or more efficient biomechanics. Although moderately trained athletes can improve a variety of factors to increase endurance performance, elite athletes mainly improve endurance performance by changes in lactate threshold, lactate turn point, and work economy or efficiency. None of these is directly altered by erythropoietin.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/775767
Clerk wrote:
-Chris Horner was barred from defending his Veulta title after violating an MPCC standard. He tested positive for Croticosteroids within 8 days of the start. Legal by WADA (it is legal OOC), but illegal by MPCC.
Technically, Horner was kept out for low cortisol levels. He had a TUE and prescription for corticosteroids.
Guys, in a way, haven't we all doped at some point?
carbthef***up wrote: Profesional sport is a show, just relaxe and enjoy.
With all due respect, this rationalization is scary. It clearly suggests that fans of a given sport couldn't care less how juiced the athletes are as long as their performances are entertaining. I don't doubt for a moment that it's true, but it is nonetheless disturbing.
I was a decent college runner, but not nearly good enough to do it professionally. Since there was never any real cash or fame at stake for me, I'll concede that it's pretty easy for me to play the morality card and say that I couldn't have lived with myself if I was succeeding by virtue of cheating. That being said, my kids are becoming very competitive athletes, and I don't think they should ever have to feel compelled to cheat just to level the playing field. It's not good for their health, and it's not fair to athletes who want to complete legitimately.
This is why I think drug cheats should be banned for life. No second chances.
the track boom of the 90s was all epo fuelled
the blood dopers won all the medals before EPO
viren cova and the rest of them in the 70s and 80s
the east africans and moroccans and algerians and spanish and italians all got on the EPO train in the 1990s
only a fool would believe that EPO wasn't endemic in track
****THERE WAS NO EPO TEST************************
"Still a problem"? No, it is not a problem. The drug in question are not illegal, make one healthier, and is often given to elderly patients. Having more red blood cells is a good thing with no negative side effects. In fact, the opposite is a problem - hence the drug's popularity with doctors.
rojo wrote:
About once a week I take a look at the cycling websites, blad I did.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/astana-serious-situation-doping-positives-says-uci-139200
Oh my, where do I start? No surprise here with Astana. There is definitely still a problem. The power to weight numbers are as high as ever. It's funny, on a chart I score world tour. But I would be lucky to be a world tour bottle carrier. Instead I'll stay domestically for the time being.
We all know doping is still a problem. I would say our world championship team this year was a very clean team. And well, look how that went for us. Do I believe you can currently win at the pro tour level clean? Absolutely- because the strongest guy doesn't always win. Do I believe you can climb like the winners are in the tour de france clean? Well, I'm extremely skeptical.
But here's where the real problem lies. The fans and the clean guys.
Here I am speaking anonymously to you about this on a message board. WHY? Because everyone is so scared they'll lose their job. Look like an A-hole, crazy, or no one will believe them. And they want to fit in. It's funny, because you can be on a team, and your teammate is doping and you have no idea. Not only that, guys will make it out of the domestic squad, and be super stoked to make it pro tour. And all the sudden they're all buddy buddy with the guys they always vowed to hate. The old guard- there's this weird respect and awe. You want to impress the guy with all these fans. Even though you know he was successful in the early 2000's. Or you race on George Hincapie's pro team. And have no choice that a doper is cutting your check, and you're just happy to have a job. How can you even stick up to that? There's good kids on that team. (minus the one that punched me mid race...eff that guy)
It's disheartening watching the guys you race against support Levi and his Gran Fondo, or be best friends with the guy who served a six month doping suspension. Because fact of the matter is, dopers are still human beings- they made mistakes. And people forgive- the problem is, the fans and some of the riders so easily forgive. Where does that leave us? Past dopers still in the sport, running teams. They are the management! But I'm just a guy trying to make a living racing his bike so how dare I speak up? I forgive the guy for doping too. But that doesn't mean I respect him.
I'm waiting to hear about contracts for next year. It's easy to say dopers are stealing from me. But I really have no clue if that's the case, just assumptions.. Who really does know? But when you have second string guys being popped in Europe, and a bunch of Pro tour guys who couldn't make it over there, and are coming back to American spots. Well...seems like my assumptions aren't too far off based.
Cycling gets a really bad rap, as it should. But the other sports are just as dirty, if not worse. But fans will be fans. And USATF will still nominate Justin Gatlin for athlete of the week. And the sponsors still support him. Thousands still show up to Levi's fondo, George still has his pro team, unsanctioned races still openly invite Lance to race, Tom Danielson still wins the tour of colorado. All of it is nonsense. But I would rather give it hell and say eff em. Regardless I can tell my future kids that I tried, I was clean, and I got to do some of the coolest races in America and sometimes oversees. Even if I never become a household name. I will still have my dignity, and so will a bunch of others who threw it down with these guys. Even if they had their teeth kicked in day after day.
"Doping is still a big problem"
No, really?
You fvcking genius.
All children are above average wrote:
I'm blad
HI blad