The Great Oak High School Juggernaut

steer clear wrote:

Coach Soles was able to fool people for a few years, but the truth is out to other HS and college coaches about the intensity and volume of their training.

I recruited Great Oak boys and their training included a weekly 2 hour long run, another weekly 90min run, 10x 1 mile repeats and another really long workout every week. Summer mileage was over 100mpw.

I find it duplicitous when HS coaches run this type of program and then lie about their methods so they seem like geniuses and so college coaches won't be scared to recruit their kids. At least Joe Newton was honest about his York teams, saying his job was to win state HS titles and not to prepare athletes for college.

As a college coach, do you not want kids that have proven they can handle 100mpw?

It does seem odd to have 13 girls under 18:00 for 3 miles, and half of those nearly breaking 17:00, yet they don't run any more mileage than other top programs? Maybe it's the intensity. 12 x 1200 or 24 x 400 is quite a bit of work.

Hi Guys,

Feel free to bag on me all you want, we all have different opinions on training and there is no one right way so if my style of coaching doesn't fit what you think is right, feel free to rip me.

As far as the speculation for what we do...Last week our top athletes ran 53 miles (mostly due to the heat canceling some practices and modifying others). This week we are scheduled for about 58 miles before Pre Nationals. Our highest mileage week was our peak during summer and I think 3 guys hit 75 miles that week. We are averaging about 65 miles for top end varsity athletes for the season.

In the past we have done some crazy reps and we did have one summer where a group of hard working seniors cracked 100 miles once, but we have had fewer and fewer of those workouts as the seasons have gone by. This season we have done 4x1600, 5x1000, and 6x800 for reps. Nothing out of the ordinary. Today is a 5 mile tempo run. Tomorrow is an 8 mile recovery run.

Again, feel free to personally attack me all you want. I'm far from perfect, and if it makes you feel better about yourself, then have at it. I do the best I can for my kids, and I learn every day. I have been fortunate to learn from some great coaches, and I have some really great assistants.

Nice response, Doug. Way to keep it classy, seriously.

Personally, I don't care if these kids are running 50mpw or 150mpw. Success is success and the kids wouldn't have it without a great leader. Keep it up.

Coach Soles wrote:

Not sure what the mileage was in the 70's but we are averaging about 65 miles a week this season for the top varsity kids. I don't think that is much higher than most top end programs...

For girls, I think 65 is high, perhaps not too high for a few Footlocker types, but as a team average, I think 65 is high. 65 for Girls is about equal to 85 for boys, which means they are running NCAA type mileage.

Our HS has run against Great Oak and I must say that is an extremely fit group of kids. He obviously is attracting very good athletes - they look strong.

We hear about how dedicated they are (how much they run) but in order to compete against the likes of Arcadia and Saugus you have to be.

ice cream is good wrote:

What is the scoop on this program?

How did they get so good and get so many kids to join the team and run so well?

Having a big suburban school helps, but it is really about the coaching. And, you don't have to be a coaching expert, dedication and getting kids to buy into the program is the key. You will never see a great H.S. XC team with out a coach who works their butt off.

Great Oak boys AND girls won't be CA #1 following the state meet at the end of November. You heard it here first.

very classy response. Congratulations to you, coach, on your tremendous success with this program!

Soles wins!

Anyhow, Coach Soles a post above talked about having multiple teams within your team. Could you tell me/us what the structure of those teams are, how athletes can move up and down from each team and your favorite meet?

Sure, just send me an email and I'll answer any questions I can about our program. :)

My email is on the Great Oak XC website at the bottom.

I have honestly never really heard about this team until just this year and I would call myself a dedicated follower of High School XC on the national level.

Can anyone fill me in on this team, how they do in their region for NXN and how they have done at NXN? Thanks.

Even a well known male runner of his (Soles) was on record (dyestatcal) this last spring stating they run 60-80 miles a week starting winter track. And that's just to race 2 miles on the track!

steer clear wrote:

Coach Soles was able to fool people for a few years, but the truth is out to other HS and college coaches about the intensity and volume of their training.

I recruited Great Oak boys and their training included a weekly 2 hour long run, another weekly 90min run, 10x 1 mile repeats and another really long workout every week. Summer mileage was over 100mpw.

I find it duplicitous when HS coaches run this type of program and then lie about their methods so they seem like geniuses and so college coaches won't be scared to recruit their kids. At least Joe Newton was honest about his York teams, saying his job was to win state HS titles and not to prepare athletes for college.

Acali Runner wrote:

Even a well known male runner of his (Soles) was on record (dyestatcal) this last spring stating they run 60-80 miles a week starting winter track.

And that's just to race 2 miles on the track!

[/quote]

Think a second before you post.

California.

Winter Track.

I believe they call it winter training there. They are getting in the miles. Same as summer.

Coach Soles said that they have had a handful of guys hit 75 this summer. He also said that some very dedicated runners in the past have reached 100. It seems that it would not be out of the question for one of his runners to run 80 miles during a base phase.

I've only met Coach Soles once. He seems like a great guy. His coaching staff and athletes respect him. I hope the best for his team this year.

The mileage for a 3200m runner isn't going to be much different than the mileage for a 5k runner. Also, you're talking about base mileage. 60-80 in base isn't that high, it's probably on par with what most other elite programs in the nation do. Coach Soles already stated that 3 of his kids hit 75 at their peak this summer, so that doesn't seem surprising at all.

grand stage wrote:

Great Oak boys AND girls won't be CA #1 following the state meet at the end of November. You heard it here first.

Gotta say, I agree with you on this one. Has anyone been keeping up on their non-varsity athletes? Junior boys at their Fastback Shoot Out Meet hosted at Mt Sac came in 11th place (out of 11 teams). And from what I've seen, the seniors couldn't even score because they were out one guy. This is insanely unusual for a team of such a high potential and competitive nature. Why are these athletes falling behind? While this coach is apparently working wonders with his varsity team, let's face it: it's obvious he could care less about the teams that are below what he deems "adequate" for competing. A good program should be good all around. What happens when someone falls injured in varsity? Without a solid base for kids below varsity to work up and receive the attention they need to be great, this team could very easily collapse.

On the off chance that someone who isn't aware reads your post, their results at Fastback probably had something to do with the fact that their A,B,C and D teams were at Seaside the day before, and it was their Sub-Sub-JV teams you're comparing to most other teams top runners.

28 guys at 16:39 or faster for 3 miles. 37 with marks so far and the slowest of the bunch is 18:39. I'd say the kids are getting attention.

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Yes, but I believe you are still pulling those times from Seaside, which was established as their "varsity" meet while Fastbacks was their "fun/I don't care" race. For most of the XC team, Woodbridge was their first 3 mile race of the season and in that meet, the fastest junior boy race time was 16:37, which was followed up by 16:59. 28 sub 16:39 seems about right, but you have to realize that their team is comprised of at least 3 groups for just varsity and so this time is more than easily attained. My concern though is that this huge "stock" of varsity tends to leave out the smaller non-varsity team. The sport is no longer about running with teammates, but rather some formulaic construction that promotes ONLY championships and offers no way for the underdog to rise up the ladder to compete at a decent level that isn't completely blown off by a coach that would rather watch his varsity girls win again and again.