taxation is theft

No, taking someone's money without their permission is theft, regardless of whether or not people think it's necessary or not. People do not choose to be part of a society, hence the social contract which people so often point to is not valid. With all the immigration laws and such that people make today, the simple excuse of "go somewhere else" is ridiculous and 99% of the time not possible.

"If you stay and use services you consent to taxation!"

Makes about as much sense as....

http://vigilantvote.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/bullies.jpg?w=614

anapaix wrote:

"If you stay and use services you consent to taxation!"

Makes about as much sense as....

http://vigilantvote.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/bullies.jpg?w=614

No, not even close.

Are there any nations that have no taxes? Or some non-nationalized territories or islands where people live and they pay zero taxes to anyone?

How did you get the income that is being taxed?

anapaix wrote:

No, taking someone's money without their permission is theft, regardless of whether or not people think it's necessary or not. People do not choose to be part of a society, hence the social contract which people so often point to is not valid. With all the immigration laws and such that people make today, the simple excuse of "go somewhere else" is ridiculous and 99% of the time not possible.

Dude, where did you get that money? It is not produced via your thoughts, it was produced by your society, which has costs. If you don't want to pay taxes then don't play the game, but if you play the game and don't pay then you are the thief. You would be better off checking yourself out. Buy some remote land with no property taxes, build your own house with stuff from that land, guard it with weapons you make from that land and animals you have tamed from that land, don't use the roads, don't use the infrastructure we have collectively built , and nobody will tax you at all. Even then you will be the thief because you have taken the security of the nation that stops roaming hoards from overwhelming "your" land which society has allowed you to own in all of its peace and glory for free because you don't feel you need to contribute to the cause.

Typical statist logic "move to somalia!" If you stay i will use the coercive violent force of government to force you to pay for taxes. And the taxes you pay are HARDLY ever used efficiently and usually go to the pockets of the rich and well connected

libertariankid wrote:

Most people can cooperate peacefully without taxes or with the minimal amount thereof

'Most' is not enough.

Your logic is flawed

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

libertariankid wrote:

Most people can cooperate peacefully without taxes or with the minimal amount thereof

'Most' is not enough.

"Society" doesn't produce anything. There is no "society." There are only individuals acting on their personal interests. Nearly every decision made by every human on earth is done so, in one way or another, for their personal interest. There are exceptions, of course, but they are much less common.

Individuals produce goods and services (which can be exchanged for one another, creating value), not "society." The natural flow of supply/demand of an economy is what causes individuals to produce goods and services. This demand/supply for services exists independent of rules and regulations. When marijuana is regulated and banned, Does that make the demanded go down? Of course not.

As for countries with no income tax, yes there are some. The United Arab Emirates, Andorra, Monaco, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the Bahamas are just to name a few, but there are more which I can't remember at the moment. Low tax places are places such as Hong Kong, Singapore, and Macau.

I wouldn't consider taxation itself to be theft, per se, but the irresponsible manner in which our tax dollars are spent by the government is absolutely criminal.

Libertariankid wrote:

Your logic is flawed

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

'Most' is not enough.

Lol, ''"most" is not enough!"

...as if with laws and taxes, the rate of peaceful cooperation amongst citizens then goes to 100%! There are no rapes, murders, or robberies because they are illegal! They must think like those people who think that making abortion illegal will then make it so it just doesn't happen. Crime happens, regardless of its legality.

If his true goal is creating a peaceful society, taxing more and over regulating are clearly not the answer.

Libertariankid wrote:

Your logic is flawed

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

'Most' is not enough.

How so?

anapaix wrote:

Libertariankid wrote:

Your logic is flawed

Lol, ''"most" is not enough!"

...as if with laws and taxes, the rate of peaceful cooperation amongst citizens then goes to 100%! There are no rapes, murders, or robberies because they are illegal! They must think like those people who think that making abortion illegal will then make it so it just doesn't happen. Crime happens, regardless of its legality.

If his true goal is creating a peaceful society, taxing more and over regulating are clearly not the answer.

Lol.

I suspect that some people think that there is less violence and more respect of property rights due to the presence of a government, imperfect as it may be.

And just for good measure, let's give it another one of these: Lol

Look at anaipix's response

Libertariankid wrote:

Typical statist logic "move to somalia!" If you stay i will use the coercive violent force of government to force you to pay for taxes. And the taxes you pay are HARDLY ever used efficiently and usually go to the pockets of the rich and well connected

Exactly. Example: the us government already spends more per capita on education than any country in the world, and yet where are the results? It's mostly wasted, and of course union bosses have to get their $$$hare as well.

And then there is military spending, the worst of all. If the us cut military spending to just the average of other countries, we could reduce taxes greatly and still maintain all the other useless programs that statists love.

This is what gets me about people who think taxes need to be raised in the USA: the USA already takes in so many taxes, and so much of it is horribly spent (military, for example.) instead of people campaigning to change how the current tax dollars are spent, so that they aren't wasted on killing middle eastern kids, they think it wise to completely ignore the current waste and just tax more and more. Unless someone completely agrees with how our current tax dollars are spent, why would they want more tax $ to go towards programs they aren't agreeing with?? Wouldn't it make more sense to make sure that we can first spend wisely and correctly the money taken in NOW, instead of just writing it off as another 500billion dollar loss or whatever? Where is the fiscal responsibility?

Libertariankid wrote:

Look at anaipix's response

Look at my response.

Horrible response. You dont need excess taxes and government prgrams to feel mildly secure

"taxation is theft"

That would seem to depend on your definition of 'theft'.

From Meriam Webster: the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it OR an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property

That is, theft involves breaking the law. Since taxation is not against the law in the US it follows that taxation is not theft.

Now, you may wish to use an alternative definition. For example, you might have had something more like this in mind:

Theft: The taking of property from an individual or organization without the consent of said individual or organization.

In this case, your proposition would be correct. However, it would amount to saying:

"Taxation is the taking of property from an individual or organization without the consent of said individual or organization."

Which would probably raise no counter-arguments.

Hence, we conclude that you used the term 'theft' rather than spelling things out in order to shed more heat than light on the situation. A practice commonly referred to as trolling.

And for this we honor you.

7/10