Steeple DQ for using hands? Birech?

Shawn H wrote:

I'd like to hear Malmo's thoughts on this topic. He was a great steeplechaser.

I'm stunned that anyone would think that proper etiquette for steeplechasing is any different than for eating asparagus.

Ok...interesting. Some gray areas here still, but it seems my friend is right about masters hurdling. I don't understand the NCAA rule. So, that means if you're running the 110 and you knock your own hurdle down that it's a foul? So, does that mean you're disqualified? That's can't be right.

Flagpole wrote:

Ok...interesting. Some gray areas here still, but it seems my friend is right about masters hurdling. I don't understand the NCAA rule. So, that means if you're running the 110 and you knock your own hurdle down that it's a foul? So, does that mean you're disqualified? That's can't be right.

Knocking down hurdles is fine within the rules (don't impede other competitors though).

Knocking down the hurdles intentionally is grounds for a DQ. This is a bit of a judgement call, but one that isn't too hard to get right.

It says "deliberate or not".... Makes no sense. By the letter any knocked over is a violation.

Of course it would hardly be the first NCAA thing that made no sense.

the linked document above isn't the actual rule book. I'd wager if you looked up the specific rule, it would be more clearly outlined.

rodger wrote:

It says "deliberate or not".... Makes no sense. By the letter any knocked over is a violation.

Yeah, that's silly. Honestly, in my opinion, you should be able to run them over if you really want to. No way that could be faster than the way good hurdles go over them, so it would not be an advantage. Also, if you did that you would run the risk of pushing a hurdle into another lane which would impede another runner, so that would be a violation.

You need to read the rule book properly, that is why I asked you to post the rule. Despite what you may think, if a runner knocks down the hurdle and drags his/her trail leg below the required clearance, he/she gains a benefit. That is not allowed. I am sure you think that knocking down a hurdle slows a runner down. If a runner is not a good hurdler and has trouble clearing a hurdle he/she can run faster by running "through" the hurdle, so to speak. This happens more in high school than in college, as by college most hurdlers are more proficient.

You may use some high school hurdle race as your point of reference, but that is not a valid resource. That is like seeing a stock drop 10 points one day and selling. You need to read the rule book, as all the rules for hurdles, be it high school, NCAA, USATF, IAAF basically have the same rule, with some minor distinctions.

I am only speaking of the short and intermediate hurdles and not the steeple, as you can assume.

I hope this helps clear up your confusion.

malmo wrote:

Shawn H wrote:

I'd like to hear Malmo's thoughts on this topic. He was a great steeplechaser.

I'm stunned that anyone would think that proper etiquette for steeplechasing is any different than for eating asparagus.

Hmmm. Here is German etiquette for eating asparagus, or "Spargel," as the Germans call it. Please, Malmo, enlighten us. LOL. I quote:

" . . . when you receive an invitation for a "Spargelessen" you should treat it with the utmost respect and decorum. "Spargel" is expensive, time-consuming and the harvest is short (thank goodness), so these dinner parties are a special offering to you, the guest.

Common Etiquette Rules

Serving "Spargel". "Spargel" is most often served as the centerpiece of the meal. Each guest has 5-8 spears of asparagus on the plate and then chooses from at least two sauces (melted butter and Hollandaise), cooked and dried ham slices, and boiled new potatoes. Some people serve pork cutlets, others serve hard boiled eggs, quartered. In Southern Germany, they serve asparagus in thin pancakes with sauce.

Eating "Spargel" correctly. Germans used to eat asparagus with their fingers but since the advent of stainless steel knives which don't rust, it has become proper to cut them with a knife and fork. Eat from the stalk end to the tip, to save the best for last. It is rude not to finish your portion of asparagus, even if you leave other food on your plate. Also, do not ask for more asparagus, wait until it is offered to you.

Emily Post: It's OK to use your hands to eat asparagus. It's OK use your hands to hurdle barriers in the steeplechase too.

I have learned 2 interesting things from this:

1. Letsrun has a very different definition for "crawl" than most people.

2. Flagpole talks out of his ass yet again.

Not A Big Thinker wrote:

I have learned 2 interesting things from this:

1. Letsrun has a very different definition for "crawl" than most people.

2. Flagpole talks out of his ass yet again.

I just learned it's ok to eat asparagus with my hands

Ok. Please help me understand this (confusion not yet cleared up)...and to be clear to the haters out there, I am actually asking for clarity because this is something that I do NOT know. I was simply quoting what an official friend of mine told me before. I do NOT pretend to have knowledge on this subject.

Here's what I do and also do not understand:

1) I UNDERSTAND that you can't drag the trail leg lower than the hurdle. Often (especially in the 300 hurdles), a runner will drag the trail leg to the side of the hurdle, and that is clearly a violation. HOWEVER...

2) ...are you saying that if that trail leg hits and knocks over a hurdle or if the leading leg hits and knocks over a hurdle that the runner is DQ'd? Is that the rule?

malmo wrote:

Emily Post: It's OK to use your hands to eat asparagus. It's OK use your hands to hurdle barriers in the steeplechase too.

LOL. I knew we could count on you, Malmo.

For those of you who wish to know more about proper etiquette, here you go. Oh, and it's perfectly fine to cut your salad with a knife before eating it! :-)

I've always been told it is a judgment call. My high school team had a 300h hurdler DQ'd that knocked down 3 of the 10 hurdles because the official said that "he wasn't making an honest effort to clear the hurdles". It cost us the state title. I hate high school track officials.

Northern Pike wrote:

Not A Big Thinker wrote:

I have learned 2 interesting things from this:

1. Letsrun has a very different definition for "crawl" than most people.

2. Flagpole talks out of his ass yet again.

I just learned it's ok to eat asparagus with my hands

Does one get steeple pee after a race?

Coming Down wrote:

Does one get steeple pee after a race?

Everyone gets steeple pee, only the ones with the right gene can smell it.