NYC Marathon starting question (corral system)

agreed. normally i would have something to pee into, but not wanting to be a total ahole and pee on anyone's feet or send a river flowing toward those around me, i opted to go outside the "corral." Absolutely 100% my stupidity. It just sucked (and really pissed me off) not being allowed back into my assigned area and then spending the few minutes I had fighting my way through the masses to get caught behind people who were clearly up near the front that didn't belong there.I do hope it has been improved.

Joseph McVeigh wrote:

- The "call of nature" story could have been prevented by good planning. At big races like this where I report early, I carry an empty 20-oz Gatorade bottle with me to the start, to be capped tightly and passed to the side when it's maybe 5 min to gun time. Think and plan for yourself, people -- until your mommy is a race director, don't count on having someone else look out for you.

Hear, hear! I also ran Chicago last week, and was tremendously impressed with their start system. It took me a grand total of 5 seconds to get across the line, and I was running my goal pace of 5:45 within 100 meters. The LaSalle Bank boys know how to run a race for the elites, masses and quality local runners in the 2:25-2:40 range. Good for them, and shame on NYC race orgainziers who still don't get it.

bib #221 wrote:

yeah mee too, I'm in "Blue Start"...am I going to be able to get near the front at the start(looking to run around 2:28)?

If you are a man who is entered in the 2004 ING New York City Marathon who has a legitimate shot at running between 2:22 and 2:30, and are concerned about your starting position, please contact me directly at

.

Thank you.

David Monti

Elite Athlete Coordinator, ING New York City Marathon

I'm not s---ting on JSI's PR. Some of my running buddies I respect most have never broken 4 hours.

I'm bemoaning the fact that JSI thinks 2:34 "earns" him something.

I didn't even start looking for a front-line start until 1994, after I had run under 2:20. And I didn't get a taste of the front line until 2000. In the meantinme, from "behind the rope" and blocked by the same gang of lard-asses with pinwheel beanies, I ran 2:23 in 1993 (31st), 2:22 in 1994 (27th), and 2:21 in 1996 (24th).

Am I saying, "I suffered, so you should suffer?". No. I'm saying be realistic. It is what it is. The corrals can't be set up at the actual start area unless you want the LAST bus to the start to leave Manhattan at 5 AM so they can be set up. Even then, it's unlikely to think of 100% closure of a Hudson River/NY Harbor crossing for 6-7 hours. while tey're in place on the S.I. Expwy.

Until they move ths start off the bridge -- no chance of that ever happening -- the corrals will break down to soem degree. Let's see if that improves this year.

I've been running Chicago for a few years, and would be excited to run NYC. Great course, crowds, etc. The only reason I've not done it is because of the start. It's good to see Monti's reply, as maybe this is changing.

Chicago does a first class of job with their sub-elite section. It wasn’t really that much of a bigger deal than the competitive start in terms of placement (saves probably 5-10 seconds than those at the front of the competitive section), but you had a tent to go into with separate portajohns, and water and gatorade before the race.

This was all nice, but the biggest benefit was that you weren't taken to the start until 20 minutes before the gun (a huge, huge benefit). By the time the sub-elites arrived, it was probably 12 or 15 minutes to the gun.

I would highly reccomend offering something like this for the sub 2:30 guy (if it's not being planned already). It is such a selling point for guys worried about losing a minute or two while weaving through plodders, standing around for 45 minutes at the start, and trying to elbow your way through to the front corral.

When that's the case it just isn't worth the bother when Chicago truly treats this group as VIPs.

If you're really hoping to run that fast you better contact David Monti - he posts here a lot - of NYRR. You'll be behind 1000s of runners if you're not in a special start. Don't say you weren't warned.

I didn't think about the bridge closure problems -- but for god's sakes -- the runners are in Fort Wadsworth sitting around for hours. Corral everyone there. Only people wearing qualified bibs can enter these corrals and place these corrals closest to the bridge. Then bring the sub-elite & competitive runners to the starting line before everyone else. The legions of fanny pack runners won't even know this is going on. Believe me, I'll skip the official warm-up and accompanying bands.

I, for one, think it's a great sign that David Monti is paying attention to this thread and reaching out. My hope is that next year this assistance is formalized in official race information so a 2:45 runner in Texas may decide to run NY instead of Chicago, or wherever.

So say you've never run a marathon, but you have a 1:12 half. Say you want to run 2:37, but you'll be in the masses in the blue start at NYC...Given that you can't change your start situation since you don't deserve special treatment, how do you approach the race?

Let's say the fastest I can get out is 6:40...do I just give away that 40 seconds and go to my plan of 6:00 pace the whole time, hoping i have something in the tank to drop the pace around mile 18, or do I try to run 5:50s for a while from mile 3 to 10 since it won't be hard to do at that point and then settle back down? I have the feeling that once I start giving seconds back to the race, it's only going to want to take more.

that is why you will run in Chicago next year.

David - if you're going to respond to this thread, respond to the original question. What do the colors mean and where do they put us? Where is the blue start, where is the orange start and where is the green start?

exactly, explain the different start based on the color coded system...

If i remember it all correctly:

Orange Start: woman, especially the 'faster' women; top deck of the bridge, left side of the road;

Blue Start: men; top deck, right side;

Green Start: lower deck, ducking from the 'rain' falling from the top deck.

If i remember the thread from last year, the Blue and Green numbers are mixed by time, although i've always found the Blue start to be the faster times.

JSI...you're calling out Joe McV?! about the NY Marathon? i've always found McV to be the 'dean' on this website about the NYC Marathon. you have a question, you ask him. he will always answer/post on any thread about NY. you don't like the answer...well the truth hurts pal.

you want to be at the front of the pack? push your way up there and quit your crying.

I hope you're not serious with that advice. Every 5 hour runner from the U.K., France, Italy, Brazil, Norway, already pushes and it still doesn't get them in front of the civil servants who don't belong up front.

It cannot be too difficult to get a credentialed sub 2:45 runner toward the front. Why? There aren't many!

Hi All,

This thread was brought to my attention, and I can't help but respond as we want every competitive runner to have nothing but an amazing experience in NY.

First, some specifics. Anyone who expects to run 3:00 or under in the 2004 ING New York City Marathon should contact me if you have any concern about your start, and we will be happy to walk you through the process, double check your number and start line, and do all we can to ensure a good solid start for you.

Here is the overview on the competitive starts. To maximize opportunity, we divide the top runners across our three start lines based on predicted time (and submitted proof). The start lines are coded blue, orange and green (color is on your race bib as well as registration card). The blue and orange go over the top level of the bridge, the green is on the lower level,(which means it is flatter than blue and orange, which must crest the hill of the upper level). The blue is the start line for the professional women and men. They are followed by 2:35 and up male runners - mainly national and international at the front. This year, in a change, the top national and international male runners expected to run between 2:20 and 2:35 will line up at the front of the orange start, our new sub-elite initiative. They will be followed by women predicting 2:50 and over. Local competitive men expected to run under 2:50 line-up at the front of the green start.

In past years, we have struggled to maintain the corrals once we move

runners from Fort Wadsworth to the bridge. Unlike pretty much every other major race in the world, the late bridge closure does not allow us to set the corrals up on the bridge itself, which would be much easier. Rather, we need to set corrals up in the Fort (staging area) and walk the 35,000 runners out onto the bridge and maintain that order - as they go from narrow corrals to wide open space at the start - you can imagine the challenge. In past years, the system has not succeeded to the degree we needed and would like. This year, we are placing additional emphasis on maintaining those first corrals. In addition, various security personnel who run the race help us hold the front lines of the blue and orange starts until the start cannon fires. In years past, the security has resulted in too many people in front of the competitive runners. That will be pulled back this year to improve the flow of competitive runners.

So bottom line, contact us if you have any concerns at all and we will be happy to talk with you and ensure you are all set. David Monti, our professional athlete coordinator, is overseeing the sub-elite initiative. Contact him directly -

dmonti@nyrr.org

- if you expect to run between 2:20 and 2:35 and have not been contacted already. If you expect to run between 2:35 and 3:00 contact me and we’ll take care of you from there. We may be uniquely challenged by some of the logistics of our marathon, but we are focused on making necessary changes to ensure a smoother start for our fastest runners.

Know that we pride ourselves on our commitment to competitive runners nationwide and take a special interest in ensuring that our competitive marathoners have the best race possible. Marathon day is the tip of the iceberg, our commitment to American distance running runs deep.

In closing, please never hesitate to contact us directly. You can feel free to contact any of us – including Alison Wade and Sam Grotewold who many of you know as well.

With best regards, Mary

Mary Wittenberg

Associate Race Director, ING New York City Marathon

mwittenberg@nyrr.org

This is exactly why I run Houston; no, it doesn't have 2mil. spectators, but it's faster, flater, more organized, more convenient/hassle free, than any "major" marathon (NY, Chicago, or Boston). If you're looking for a cattle drive, do the latter; if you're looking for a PR on a great course with 200,000+ spectators, do Houston.