If Letsrun was around when Wang Junxia ran 29.31 WR?

0/10

you spun it too quickly and got tangled all up in that YARN

Left Said Fred wrote:

Shlomo Goldstein wrote:

Or maybe the chinese "women" were actually men.

Wang has two children and a key part of the drug testing procedure she had in Stuttgart in 1993 and in Atlanta in 1996 is to have the tester watch her urinate into the sample collector.

Anyone who thinks that the track at Workers Stadium was torn up, shortened and relaid following the 1990 Asian Games: give us an estimate on about how much shorter you reckon it was.

i think what he meant was that hormonally they are closer to the male side than the female side.

due to that turtle soup of course.

In 1992, a young Paula Radcliffe defeated Wang Junxia at the World Junior XC Championships in Boston.

One year later, in 1993, Wang lowered her 10,000m PB from 32:29 to 29:31.

This lowered the WR by 42 seconds. He last 5000m was run in 14:26. The WR at the time was 14:37. Her last 3000m was run in 8:17. The WR at the time was 8:22.

Two days later, Wang ran a 1500m heat in 4:01.55 and finished second.

The next day, she ran 3:51.92 for 1500m, which was over half a second better than the previous world record. Remarkably, she finished second to her teammate.

One day later, Wang ran 8:12 to break the 3000m WR, set in the previous heat by her teammate. The second & third place finishers in her heat also were under the WR mark set in the first heat.

One day later Wang ran 8:06 to break the 3000m WR she set the previous day.

Make of that what you will.

You've got to be kidding me.

Because it bears repeating, I'll also add that besides Mary Slaney and Kazankina's top 3000 marks, another Eastern Bloc great she topped was Maricica Puica (PB 8:27.83). I mean c'mon- they ALL ran as much as 10 seconds slower in a stand alone 3000 without a 7k "warm-up"!?!!

In addition to the possible (ok, probable) drug use and the short track theory, what about the likelihood that they just manipulated the timing system. There is no video evidence of these races, correct?

Perhaps they either paused the clock for short periods of time (say 1-2 seconds per lap). Or they manipulated the calibration of the clock so every "1 sec" was actually like 1.05 sec. You could even have a continuously running clock in the stadium.

Opening 5k would be equal to: 15:50

Closing 5k would be equal to: 15:05

Closing 3k would be equal to: 8:41

A 3:50 1500m would be 4:01

Of course, any eye witness/spectator with a watch may have been suspicious. Who knows, the Chinese are so oppressive maybe they don't allow spectators to wear watches!

This is one of the more interesting theories I've seen.

I'm personally a proponent of the possibility that they may have been more male than female.

If anyone wants to read a lot more about this from a LR perspective here's a thread from 2010 that I found to be a very interesting read:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3552941&page=0

The 10000m probably was a lap short. Somebody lost count and nobody ever said anything. And there is no video, right? So we can never confirm.

As for the 1500 and 3000, those are ridiculous. Who knows.

The track was not short for reasons already stated.

The 10,000m wasn't a lap short. Track & Field News editors were there. There is no doubt they ran the times they ran and that they ran every lap.

They were simply on every drug under the sun, protected by their federation, and as Renato said, were running 170+ mile weeks.

billy bedtimer wrote:

In addition to the possible (ok, probable) drug use and the short track theory, what about the likelihood that they just manipulated the timing system. There is no video evidence of these races, correct?

Perhaps they either paused the clock for short periods of time (say 1-2 seconds per lap). Or they manipulated the calibration of the clock so every "1 sec" was actually like 1.05 sec. You could even have a continuously running clock in the stadium.

Opening 5k would be equal to: 15:50

Closing 5k would be equal to: 15:05

Closing 3k would be equal to: 8:41

A 3:50 1500m would be 4:01

Of course, any eye witness/spectator with a watch may have been suspicious. Who knows, the Chinese are so oppressive maybe they don't allow spectators to wear watches!

Every quote on this thread is 100% speculation without a single fact.

Track was not short , I ran on the track. Manipulated timing , are you stupid or something. Clearly you have never been to China or understand the culture. Please note none of the record holders tested positive. Chinese medicine has been in the culture for centuries , Ma was using it and getting results compiled with hard training. Post his 1st group of athletes his self inflicted pressure to perform crossed him over to using illegal drugs with his 2nd group of athletes. Star television ( out of Hong Kong ) a few years ago did a follow up documentary on some of the athletes , living in obscurity they had nothing to loose but to give back the truth. It was clear they did exactly what Ma asked them to do , no questions. They were never injected with anything , no needles. Yes they drank Chinese herbal concoctions post training and some pre.

Why has no Chinese woman replicated their training methods and their records?

I think that all records should be given a lifetime of 20 years. Things change: shoes and other equipment, training methods, track materials, drug standards, drug enforcement policies. These mysterious records need to be formally abandoned. And not just the Chinese ladies. We need to formally forget all these ancient women's records. Flojo. East bloc Europeans. Mary Slaney. Keep them in the history books but move on and cite only records 20 years old or newer.

alanson wrote:

Why has no Chinese woman replicated their training methods and their records?

I think that all records should be given a lifetime of 20 years. Things change: shoes and other equipment, training methods, track materials, drug standards, drug enforcement policies. These mysterious records need to be formally abandoned. And not just the Chinese ladies. We need to formally forget all these ancient women's records. Flojo. East bloc Europeans. Mary Slaney. Keep them in the history books but move on and cite only records 20 years old or newer.

That includes Rick Wohlhuter and Peter Snell?

If Letsrun was around when Wang Junxia ran 29.31 WR?

Some American athletes would be bitchin' up a storm on the message board.

If Letsrun was around when Wang ran 29:31 people would be clamoring for the video.

Then a couple days later when she ran better than the 1500 WR with a 3:51 they would write - where is the video!

And then when she broke the 3000 WR in 8:12 in a prelim they would write - where is the video!!

And when she smashed that 3000 WR in the final running 8:06 and towing 4 other women under the old record they would write - FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHERE ARE THE VIDEOS FOR ALL OF THESE UNBELIEVABLE WR PERFORMANCES!!!

There is absolutely, no doubt whatsoever, in any sane person's mind on planet Earth, that the Chinese women's records are the most doped records known to man. The most amazing thing about it is that Wang Junxia is actually a female!! That was my first suspicion.

But when I saw that she had kids, I realized that the reality is much worse than her just having a pair of testicles inside of her that she didn't know about.

My conclusion? No short track, this is evident in the fact that people watched the races, and the times from the other races. Unlikely that they messed with the timing system just for that race, though I suppose it is a remote possibility.

What do I think? These athletes were the biggest disgrace in the history of Track and Field. There has never been a more blatant instance of doping ever. They must've been so ridiculously doped. They must've been on everything known to man at the time. The only reason they could pass the drug tests (if even actually administered) is that they likely used a bladder injection of clean urine. Sound dumb? You betcha. Possible? Absolutely. It's the only way they could pass a true urine test.

TLDR: They were doping to an extent that we have not seen and will likely never see again.

For any modern world record, doesn't the IAAF need video evidence to standardize the WR? So shouldn't there be FULL video footage somewhere out there?

Huang Danwei's 20.92 winning time, assuming the track was torn up after the Asian Games redone at 390m, would be equal to a 21.46 on a 400m track. Consider that Danwei's SB in 1993 was 20.83 run in Manila.

Thinking about it some more, I think if the track had been short, we would have seen some disastrous results in the hurdles, as the hurdlers would have been getting to the hurdles quicker than they were accustomed to and would have caused serious problems with their stride pattern. To say the least, they would have noticed the difference immediately.

You can wonder if she's just one of the best ever, who then took lots of drugs. But it's not just 29:31. In a huge world record run, she did her last 3000 faster than the we. That's storybook unbelievable.

I suspect not just EPO but heavy steroid use, which would have both allowed more training and immense jumps for female performance

GoldenMiles wrote:

For any modern world record, doesn't the IAAF need video evidence to standardize the WR? So shouldn't there be FULL video footage somewhere out there?

I don't think full video is needed for the IAAF to ratifie a WR - but surely it should be. I have never understood the concept of a photo from the finish (which is necessary for record purposes).

I also don't understand the IAAF at all, that they don't put some effort to find out what's the secrtet behind those performances. We will probably never know and for sure the records can't be deleted just because "they are too good" (or just the way they were achieved).

But if I were the IAAF I would put all energy in trying to get the full videos of the races (I'm pretty sure full vids exist, there were varous sequences to see at least in Germany and in Italy at the time and for sure also in China.