I never understood how Kenya could take its athletes away from their coaching programs right before the Olympics.
Consistency and confidence is important and they shatter that.
Did they take Rudisha from his program or did they leave him alone?
I never understood how Kenya could take its athletes away from their coaching programs right before the Olympics.
Consistency and confidence is important and they shatter that.
Did they take Rudisha from his program or did they leave him alone?
Well, if 28:00 and/or 27:40 over 10000 is an indicator of 3:27-3:30 capacity over the 1500 - THEN I'd say that Mo Farah's 26:40ish should translate to something like 3:19-3:21 if he ever specilizes in the 1500... ;-)
Before London, Rudisha was the most important Kenyan athlete. We had a meeting in Iten, one day, together with Brother Colm (his coach). Rudisha is a very educated guy, and he was not happy to go to the camp, fearing the diktat of Julius Kirwa. I told him "David, you are the most important Kneyan hope fro London, not Julius Kirwa. You can chose what you want, because the first person interested in winning gold medal are you. Speak directly with the Chairman Isaia Kiplagat, tell him you need not only the program of Brother Colm, but Colm himself in the training camp with you, otherwise you continue your training in Iten".
Rudisha spoke with Isaia Kiplagat, and went to the camp with Brother Colm. Also Kitum joined him following his training program, and for that reason at the end was able running under 1'43" winning the bronze medal.
Renato, what pace is this continuous run at high intensity? Something like marathonpace? Or a percentage of 1500 or 5000 time?
Renato, what would you change in his schedule for a World Championship/Olympic year, in preparation for the more tactical type of races in the rounds and final?
I realize the Kenyan camp ruined his training in the past but he seams to compete best in fast races with pacers, but not as well in a slow race with a fast last lap.
Hey Renato, just wanted to say thanks for answering questions. Your comments and insight are always appreciated.
Thank you Renato for being so open with us and sharing such valuable information. That 8K tempo run in 23:30 is impressive. What effort did he put into that? was it done as a sort of time trial or at 75-80% effort?
It's about 4:44 pace, so I'd say it was probably a hard tempo run, but not quite a time trial (assuming it was at altitude.
Renato Canova wrote:
This is a common situation of many other top Kenyan runners : for example Asbel Kiprop, or in Marathon Wilson Kipsang and Geoffrey Mutai. With their experience, of course after long time under a coach teaching them what they had to do and the mean of every kind of training, they don't need anymore a coach with them every time.
This situation has an advantage : to increase the interest of the athlete in his activity, because becomes the first responsible for his choices, and his professionalism.
The disadvantage there is when the athlete has to face some problem (injury, sickness, bad shape without understanding the reason). In this case, the technical Advisor becomes again a coach for every day, till when the problem is not over.... and this is the real role of a coach of African Champions !
Really glad you openly discuss these things on letsrun. Love to hear about differences in coaching styles around the world and what works for the best.
he didn't, he had him running 1330 for 5K in november @ SVTT. right behind Rupp.
Kiplacat wrote:
Hard to believe that Salazar would have neglected AW's endurance.
this is awesome. moral of the story: never get too far from the bread-and-butter that is continuous high-end aerobic aerobic running. short fast stuff in small doses ONLY to sharpen up for peak races...too much of it & you neglect long aerobic running + lose the metabolic adaptations that come with it, AND risk injury/nervous system fatigue. great thread. thanks so much for this insight Renato!
Renato Canova wrote:
He reduced his mileage, but this is not too much important. His main mistake was to cancel every training with continuous run at high intensity (from 8 to 15 km during winter, from 5 to 8 km during the track season), which is the support of some long test on track (also 3000 and 2000m during winter, instead no longer than 1200m during the track season).
The biggest mistake happened in 2012, during the training camp for preparing Olympic Games. This mistake involved all the 3 kenyan athletes (Asbel Kiprop, Silas and Nixon Chepseba). During 4 weeks of training, NEVER they run longer than 40' jogging, NEVER had a test longer than 400m, using Always speed and lactic workouts.
This idiotic type of training provoked problems under physical side (hamstring for Asbel) and under nervous side. The athletes were completely nervously exhausted in London, practically they didn't compete.
But in this case, their big mistake was a lack of personality when the head coach changed completely the plan they had from their personal coach (for Nixon Chepseba, Patrick Sang and of course my plan for Silas, and me and Patrick met together in order to decide a common technical strategy for both our athletes), because they didn't refuse his proposal (same mistake from the athletes of 10000m).
Who showed personality, instead, were the athletes of 5000m. Longosiwa and Soi went to the camp with my program (including several "tempo" runs between 8 and 12 km, and long tests on track), and when Julius Kirwa told them "here there is too much endurance and few speed, 5000m are not Marathon", they answered "with this Marathon plan we already won bronze medal in Olympic 2008, we continue to qualify in Trials for WCh and OG, and when it's important to peak we are able to do, so we follow our plan".
Everybody can see the Olympic results....
ruh roh wrote:
he didn't, he had him running 1330 for 5K in november @ SVTT. right behind Rupp.
Kiplacat wrote:Hard to believe that Salazar would have neglected AW's endurance.
ahead of Rupp*
Kiplacat wrote:
Hard to believe that Salazar would have neglected AW's endurance.
Under Salazar, AW beat Rupp in a 5k race.
No, that is not the moral of the story. The moral of the story is to not neglect any aspect of training. While it is imporant not to neglect endurance during specific period it is also important not to neglect race pace and even faster running during the base phase.
Lydiard ould approve wrote:
this is awesome. moral of the story: never get too far from the bread-and-butter that is continuous high-end aerobic aerobic running. short fast stuff in small doses ONLY to sharpen up for peak races...too much of it & you neglect l
ong aerobic running + lose the metabolic adaptations that come with it, AND risk injury/nervous system fatigue.
great thread. thanks so much for this insight Renato!
Renato Canova wrote:He reduced his mileage, but this is not too much important. His main mistake was to cancel every training with continuous run at high intensity (from 8 to 15 km during winter, from 5 to 8 km during the track season), which is the support of some long test on track (also 3000 and 2000m during winter, instead no longer than 1200m during the track season).
The biggest mistake happened in 2012, during the training camp for preparing Olympic Games. This mistake involved all the 3 kenyan athletes (Asbel Kiprop, Silas and Nixon Chepseba). During 4 weeks of training, NEVER they run longer than 40' jogging, NEVER had a test longer than 400m, using Always speed and lactic workouts.
This idiotic type of training provoked problems under physical side (hamstring for Asbel) and under nervous side. The athletes were completely nervously exhausted in London, practically they didn't compete.
But in this case, their big mistake was a lack of personality when the head coach changed completely the plan they had from their personal coach (for Nixon Chepseba, Patrick Sang and of course my plan for Silas, and me and Patrick met together in order to decide a common technical strategy for both our athletes), because they didn't refuse his proposal (same mistake from the athletes of 10000m).
Who showed personality, instead, were the athletes of 5000m. Longosiwa and Soi went to the camp with my program (including several "tempo" runs between 8 and 12 km, and long tests on track), and when Julius Kirwa told them "here there is too much endurance and few speed, 5000m are not Marathon", they answered "with this Marathon plan we already won bronze medal in Olympic 2008, we continue to qualify in Trials for WCh and OG, and when it's important to peak we are able to do, so we follow our plan".
Everybody can see the Olympic results....
right...because forgetting to do his strides during base phase would've hurt Silas WAAAAY more than leaving out those continuous 8-15 KM runs.
Renato never said that Silas neglected running at or below race pace during the base phase in the OG year build-up. and I never said that i don't think it's not important either! any competent coach would know not to leave that training component out....
geese so defensive big guy, sorry if i offended you with my interpretation of a post ;)
Lydiard would approve wrote:
right...because forgetting to do his strides during base phase would've hurt Silas WAAAAY more than leaving out those continuous 8-15 KM runs.
Renato never said that Silas neglected running at or below race pace during the base phase in the OG year build-up. and I never said that i don't think it's not important either! any competent coach would know not to leave that training component out....
geese so defensive big guy, sorry if i offended you with my interpretation of a post ;)
The idea that you should only do short & fast stuff to sharpen up is stupid, especially for a 1500m runner
If you know anything about Renato's training, you know he has his athletes do short and fast stuff year round. The only thing that changes is that the race pace work becomes progressively faster & longer. And they do a hell of a lot more than "strides".
Thanks Coach! I am not sure if you had mentioned the Olympics story before, but now I get a better idea of why the team did so poorly in 2012.
marathon man 21 wrote:
Under Salazar, AW beat Rupp in a 5k race.
Rupp never loses. He only quits.
pewow wrote:
No, that is not the moral of the story. The moral of the story is to not neglect any aspect of training. While it is imporant not to neglect endurance during specific period it is also important not to neglect race pace and even faster running during the base phase.
Lydiard ould approve wrote:this is awesome. moral of the story: never get too far from the bread-and-butter that is continuous high-end aerobic aerobic running. short fast stuff in small doses ONLY to sharpen up for peak races...too much of it & you neglect l
ong aerobic running + lose the metabolic adaptations that come with it, AND risk injury/nervous system fatigue.
great thread. thanks so much for this insight Renato!
Funny. People interpret however they want.
BuyYouThatChanel wrote:
Unfortunate that fraud foreign agents like Canova can get away with doping their athletes. But their day is coming, they will receive the backlash they deserve. Have you guys heard this clowns excuses, such as "Kenyans don't dope" and "Kenyans don't benefit from EPO," COMICAL
I believe he said that SOME Kenyans (those who have been raised and trained fully at Altitude and have trained to a highest capacity already) don't NEED to dope (EPO) as the benefits to them are minimal. That is not necessarily the same thing. People with an axe to grind like to put words into his mouth that he never said, or reduce what he said into something trite (like you did) and untrue. Much like people who choose to believe that Lagat's test years ago proved he was doping because it fits their narrow perspective on what that really means.