possibly.. but.. is it also possible he had a bad race? those are still things. they happen to everyone. even BL. but ya i see him going for the masters mile record then i dont think wel hear too much more from him. Amazing career.
possibly.. but.. is it also possible he had a bad race? those are still things. they happen to everyone. even BL. but ya i see him going for the masters mile record then i dont think wel hear too much more from him. Amazing career.
Jeff Wigand wrote:
Marion Jones is a liar and cheat. However, this is the opinion of the biochemist who witnessed her EPO B test:
http://www.latimes.com/news/la-sp-doping10dec10-story.html#page=3But Allen K. Murray, an Irvine biochemist who witnessed the confirmation test on Jones' behalf, says her "A" sample should never have been declared positive in the first place.
"I have very serious questions about the 'A' result," he said, arguing that the quantity of the sample in the "A" test was too low to give a clear reading and that the lab interpreted the relatively faint image too aggressively.
At worst, he said, the initial test should have been declared inconclusive.
Now do you have any data to counter what this biochemist stated in the above matter, or you just going to continue on with your mindless nonsense? Because if you don't have any actual counterpoint from a reliable source, just do us and yourself a favor and shut up.
Hi Jeff, good to see you again.
I was wondering how long it would take you to show up and defend your hero.
We now know of course that Marion was on EPO the entire time. Along with a slew of other drugs.
But go ahead and continue to defend her and berny b-sample lagat
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
So that's a "no" for having any data to refuse Murray's position?
So that's a "no" for having any data to refute Murray's position?
Jeff Wigand wrote:
So that's a "no" for having any data to refuse Murray's position?
We now know of course that Marion was on EPO the entire time. Along with a slew of other drugs.
But go ahead and continue to defend her and berny b-sample lagat
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Jeff Wigand wrote:
So that's a "no" for having any data to refute Murray's position?
The "data" is that a negative B-sample has been shown several times in the past to be NO PROOF of innocence. BALCO guys have even explained their methods for making certain a negative B even in light of a positive A sample.
This does not mean that Lagat is certainly dirty - but it means that the negative B is no exoneration (except for legally).
The scenarios:
1) Lagat was/is dirty, tested positive on A, but tested negative on B sample due to either known-to-exist doping methods.
2) Lagat's A sample was a false-positive.
Scenario A seems more probable to most knowledgeable in the sport due to the extreme bias against false-positives present in the EPO test at the time. Also Lagat's apparent agelessly and his connections to the Arizona running community.
Scenario B is possible.
Jeff Wigand wrote:
So that's a "no" for having any data to refuse Murray's position?
Evidence shows that she was on EPO during that time, thus the analysis of your hero is invalid.
hglm wrote:
I can't figure out how to pace the full results.
12 LAGAT Bernard USA 13:27.08 SB
Is this the end for Bernard?
One would hope this is the end. Political Correctness carried the EPO cheat a long way over many years. It'll be a great day when this POS is truly finished.
BLAST FROM THE PAST wrote:
We now know of course that Marion was on EPO the entire time.
Cite one legitimate source. I'm not saying you're wrong, but if all you have is "c'mon!" that's not legitimate.
One week you're the national champ, the next week you're DONE! Ah, the letsrun boards
The Champ wrote:
The "data" is that a negative B-sample has been shown several times in the past to be NO PROOF of innocence. BALCO guys have even explained their methods for making certain a negative B even in light of a positive A sample.
Did you read what they said about how they did it? They would drop protease into their urine. Protease is an enzyme that breaks down all forms of EPO. For several years, testers were getting results that showed a complete absence of EPO from about 17% of their urine samples, as if the kidneys of these world-class athletes weren't producing any EPO at all.
The fact that Lagat's B sample showed the normal band of natural EPO distribution proves that there was no use of protease.
The Champ wrote:
The scenarios:
1) Lagat was/is dirty, tested positive on A, but tested negative on B sample due to either known-to-exist doping methods.
2) Lagat's A sample was a false-positive.
Scenario A seems more probable to most knowledgeable in the sport due to the extreme bias against false-positives present in the EPO test at the time. Also Lagat's apparent agelessly and his connections to the Arizona running community.
Scenario B is possible.
Did you read the report? It spells out exactly what happened. His A sample wasn't properly refrigerated. This allowed bacterial activity to take place the urine which effected the read out of the natural EPO that was in the urine. I saw the gel read out. There's one place where natural EPO bands out, and then a different spot in the gel where synthetic EPO bands out, and because of this bacterial activity that was able to take place, Lagat's A sample reading landed between the two zones, which is why he was flagged for a positive test. This is also why his properly handled B sample showed completely normal lines for natural EPO.
What does the Arizona running community have to do with this?
Mr. Trace Keener than most wrote:
Political Correctness
I guess you think the moon landings were faked, too.
that was the weirdest 5k i've ever seen.
rabbits are supposed to run about 12:50 pace, nobody goes with. then choge mans up and goes after them, but they're just crawling along in 64s while the rest of the field farts around doing maybe 67s? 66s? finally a chase pack forms thanks to lagat, but not the full field. they catch choge pretty easily sometime after 3k (8:00)
then it's a normal race, except that all the americans are WAYYYY back. the only white person that went with the african chase pack was cam levins, who had a pretty solid tactical race.
levins went to the front at 500 to go but got swallowed up easily. respectable run from him, about 13:15
I think the Americans made the mistake of slotting in behind Lagat, assuming he'd do better than he did. They rode that Lagat train straight backwards until they were too far gone.
Lagat is getting to that age where he will have a good race then bad race then good race then bad race... He can't perform top every time he races, but it seems that at tactical global championships he always performs and he had a really good indoor season... He's still the indoor 3k world silver medalist so I know he still has it in him, he's just having a hard time w/ DL races cause he can't use his kick and his age is getting to him in terms of going after a really fast world class time... but that won't matter, because at this age, as long as he makes it to the global championships and gets top of the pack, I think he'll be happy... I'm not going to hold him to so high of expectations as LR posters usually do, just give the guy a break, he's 40 and he doing good...
Posting this here, too
It was just a bad race. Nothing more, nothing less. I honestly would love to see Lagat win a US title when he's in his forties. Also, let's not forget. Dude DID set an american record this past winter. And won the US 5,000 title. Runner up in the 3,000 in Sopot...
Dude's still at the top of his game. Everyone has bad races. This was just one of them. Just like weather isn't climate, a single result doesn't end his career.
Mr. Trace Keener than most wrote:
hglm wrote:I can't figure out how to pace the full results.
12 LAGAT Bernard USA 13:27.08 SB
Is this the end for Bernard?
One would hope this is the end. Political Correctness carried the EPO cheat a long way over many years. It'll be a great day when this POS is truly finished.
This is a succinct, brutal post. But I will say, if he has been cheating, I completely agree.
runn wrote:
Track fans are the worst wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Maybe everyone should stop waiting on elite runners to screw up and jump in to kick them when they're down. It's almost like like many American track fans are sore about not making it themselves, so they have to wait for more successful runners to fall and then rip them once they mess up.
"Galen's on drugs!"
"Bernard is doped!"
"This guy races too much!"
"This guy doesn't race enough!"
"This lady is fast, so what? She's ugly!"
"Let's be angry at Nike!"
Can't we all be a little less cynical and more supportive? The world would be a better place.
Thank you- well written and true.
What is the problem with some of these jerks on this message board.
This is a great resource for discussing the sport and idiots have to ruin every thread.
I would like to give my fill to as I see this being an ongoing issue with the Lets Run forums. At the end of the day these athletes are doing this for their own personal goals and achievements. You should be thankful that some of them represent our countries and that we can have this connection with them.