Efraimson vs. Cain USAs

Facts only wrote:

All speculation, get back to us.

Actually, everything I said was factual and not speculation.

I've been judging Alexa's fitness as 4:08-ish ever since she ran 4:32i off of huge negative splits (February). She finally gets in a fast, competitve race, and runs 4:07. Now her coach says that she is not peaking until July and will run 4:03 and I have no reason to doubt him.

This is like having high schooler Jim Ryun and Alan Webb running as contemporaries, with Marty Liquori in close pursuit! Pure, raw track history in the making.

Agreed, we have 3 of the best young American females (we know the age of our youth) to ever walk the planet! We should be celebrating this point! If we lived in Kenya we would be celebrating them, with the pride of a country behind them. Instead we tear them down and try to talk about which one is best, and state that the others are horrible. They are all three great! We don't need another fragile Mary Decker, let's build them all up, make them incredible! We are kicking ass!

ducking in track started with coe and ovett.

USA Soldier wrote:

Agreed, we have 3 of the best young American females (we know the age of our youth) to ever walk the planet! We should be celebrating this point! If we lived in Kenya we would be celebrating them, with the pride of a country behind them. Instead we tear them down and try to talk about which one is best, and state that the others are horrible. They are all three great! We don't need another fragile Mary Decker, let's build them all up, make them incredible! We are kicking ass!

I know logically speaking you're right, but I must say it is a bit frustrating to see Cain continuously avoid racing against her best high school competitors. This didn't happen when I followed the great Webb/Ritz/Hall rivalry.

Will Cain completely skip NCAA running? Is that a smart long-term move?

GoldenMiles wrote:

USA Soldier wrote:

Agreed, we have 3 of the best young American females (we know the age of our youth) to ever walk the planet! We should be celebrating this point! If we lived in Kenya we would be celebrating them, with the pride of a country behind them. Instead we tear them down and try to talk about which one is best, and state that the others are horrible. They are all three great! We don't need another fragile Mary Decker, let's build them all up, make them incredible! We are kicking ass!

I know logically speaking you're right, but I must say it is a bit frustrating to see Cain continuously avoid racing against her best high school competitors. This didn't happen when I followed the great Webb/Ritz/Hall rivalry.

Will Cain completely skip NCAA running? Is that a smart long-term move?

Cain has already gone pro, so yes, she is completely skipping the NCAA system. And Efraimson seems increasingly likely to go the same route.

Meanwhile Cranny will be running for Stanford in the fall and Baxter for Oregon, so they presumably will be matching up frequently.

dkny64 wrote:

GoldenMiles wrote:

I know logically speaking you're right, but I must say it is a bit frustrating to see Cain continuously avoid racing against her best high school competitors. This didn't happen when I followed the great Webb/Ritz/Hall rivalry.

Will Cain completely skip NCAA running? Is that a smart long-term move?

Cain has already gone pro, so yes, she is completely skipping the NCAA system. And Efraimson seems increasingly likely to go the same route.

Meanwhile Cranny will be running for Stanford in the fall and Baxter for Oregon, so they presumably will be matching up frequently.

Do most think its a smart move to skip the NCAA system? To me I'm not sure if it is, but I'm no expert. I remember Webb left Michigan early to run a mediocre pro career.

Ducking at Jrs wrote:

https://twitter.com/Chris_J_Chavez/status/477905594800955392

"Alexa Efraimson's coach told me yesterday USAs may be on her schedule in addition to the Jr. Championship. Efraimson vs. Cain in Sacramento."

I was standing next to her coach during the 1500. He didn't say much besides "frequency, frequency, frequency" and "stay in the box".

Cool story huh?

I'm not being negative at all - both girls seem great.

But if I had to bet on who will be better at Tokyo 2020...I'd say efraimson. She has that powerful look that seems to last longer in women's running.

I'm sure both will be outstanding tho.

GoldenMiles wrote:

dkny64 wrote:

Cain has already gone pro, so yes, she is completely skipping the NCAA system. And Efraimson seems increasingly likely to go the same route.

Meanwhile Cranny will be running for Stanford in the fall and Baxter for Oregon, so they presumably will be matching up frequently.

Do most think its a smart move to skip the NCAA system? To me I'm not sure if it is, but I'm no expert. I remember Webb left Michigan early to run a mediocre pro career.

In Cain's case yes, I think it's smart. Her 800m and 1500m PRs are already to a point where she'd be expected to win any NCAA competition at those distances she entered. Win and you're just meeting expectations, lose and it's a big disappointment - doesn't seem like a great dynamic to me. Also means you're not likely to run into competition that's really helping to push you to the next level. She could have raced things like the 3000m and the 5000m to improve her range, but when push comes to shove, a college coach has every right to expect a star team member to focus on scoring points in her best events rather than improving for the future, which would have kept pushing her right back into the 800m and the 1500m racing college women with PRs slower than hers.

As for Webb, I don't think it's fair to say the guy had a mediocre career. Through 2007 it was up and down, but the ups were very, very good and his time at Michigan didn't seem to be helping his development. Ritz also left Colorado early - I'm not 100% convinced that was the right call for him, but I find Ritz puzzling at a lot of levels. Hall had lots of ups and downs at Stanford and took a year away in the middle of his collegiate career but seems ultimately to have gotten the most out of us his collegiate experience of those three.

In general, the level of competition in men's NCAA mid-d / distance running is a bit higher than in women's. If that stays the case and the HS system keeps cranking out talents like Ajee Wilson, Cain and Efraimson,I think we're going to see more examples of top HS girls skipping the NCAA system.

Cain is ducking her, her form is clearly off from last year. It does not mean if they race that Cain would not Beat Efraimson.

Efraimson is going pro, no doubt about it.

If Cain and Efraimson both stay healthy and motivated, we could have dozens of opportunities to see them race each other over the next 10 [15? 20?] years at anything from 800m - 5000m. Cranny could also be part of that mix, but probably not as much while she runs for Stanford.

Certainly they were guilty of it, but they didn't begin the practice.

douglas burke wrote:

ducking in track started with coe and ovett.

Thanks for giving a well thought-out answer, which is so rare on this board.

Speaking of Webb and Michigan, I'm going to re-read Sub-4:00 soon, about his time there.

As of now Cain is entered in the Jr. 1500m as of now Efraimson not entered in the meet. Last year Cain entered the Jr. Meet, but did not run it. She ran in the Srs. to make the World Sr. team for Moscow. She could run in the Srs. 1st and then the Jrs. No International Sr. teams to qualify for this year.

Women 1500m

Name Affiliation Mark Status Notes

Mary Cain Nike 4:05.21 qualified

Therese Haiss Oregon 4:22.64 qualified

Janelle Noe Toledo 4:29.74 qualified

Kieran Gallagher 4:30.20 qualified

Rebekah Topham Cornhusker Flyers 4:30.33 qualified

Corinne Birchard Buffalo 4:33.84 qualified

Eliza Dekker Durham Striders Track Club 4:55.29 qualified

Elizabeth Ramsey Greensboro Pacesetters Track Club 4:58.37 not qualified

Maggie Montoya Baylor 4:23.65

Bryn Morley 4:47.47

She is entered in the Sr. Womens 1500m as well this year.

Women 1,500m - Women

Name Affiliation Mark Status Declaration

Jennifer Simpson New Balance 3:58.28 qualified declared

Gabriele Grunewald Brooks / Team USA Minnesota 4:01.48 qualified declared

Heather Kampf Asics / Team USA Minnesota 4:07.15 qualified declared

Heather Wilson New Jersey New York Track Club 4:07.47 qualified declared

Nicole Schappert Brooks / New York Athletic Club (NYAC) 4:09.87 qualified declared

Amanda Eccleston 4:09.88 qualified declared

Laura Thweatt Boulder Track Club 4:10.55 qualified declared

Lauren Paquette 4:10.98 qualified declared

Sarah Brown New Balance 4:11.27 qualified declared

Stephanie Charnigo New Jersey New York Track Club 4:11.33 qualified declared

Stephanie Brown Arkansas 4:11.40 qualified declared

Melissa Salerno New Balance 4:12.35 qualified declared

Cory McGee Florida 4:12.50 qualified declared

Amanda Winslow Oiselle / New Jersey New York Track Club 4:26.28 qualified declared

Hillary Holt 4:13.13 not qualified not accepted

Christina Cazzola University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh 4:14.20 not qualified not accepted

Allison Peare Kentucky 4:14.91 not qualified not accepted

Kristen Findley Adidas/RogueAC 4:16.26 not qualified not accepted

Emily Lipari Villanova 4:35.24 not qualified not accepted

Greta Feldman Oregon TC Elite 4:17.14 not qualified scratched

Shannon Rowbury Nike 4:01.28 qualified

Treniere Moser Nike 4:04.74 qualified

Brie Felnagle adidas / BROOKS Beasts TC 4:05.64 qualified

Alexa Efraimson 4:07.05 qualified

Katherine Mackey Brooks / BROOKS Beasts TC 4:07.19 qualified

Kate Grace Oiselle 4:07.35 qualified

Morgan Uceny adidas 4:08.68 qualified

Lea Wallace Nike 4:09.13 qualified

Kerri Gallagher 4:09.64 qualified

Sara Vaughn Brooks 4:10.05 qualified

Angela Bizzarri Brooks / BROOKS Beasts TC 4:11.63 qualified

Rebecca Tracy 4:12.37 qualified

Lauren Penney Oiselle / New Jersey New York Track Club 4:12.77 qualified

Amanda Mergaert Oiselle 4:12.83 qualified

Mary Cain Nike 4:24.11 qualified

Katrina Coogan Georgetown 4:33.00 qualified

Lauren Johnson Oregon TC Elite 4:33.00 qualified

Clerc Simpson Brooks NM not qualified

Carly Hamilton Georgia 4:15.12 not qualified

Dana Mecke 4:15.46 not qualified

Lindsey Drake Bowerman Track Club 4:16.57 not qualified

Rachel Schneider 4:16.69 not qualified

Marielle Hall Texas 4:35.27 not qualified

Efraimson and Cain both entered in Srs. 1500m, but not yet declared.

lsl wrote:

Facts only wrote:

All speculation, get back to us.

Actually, everything I said was factual and not speculation.

Facts only wrote:

lsl wrote:

Actually, everything I said was factual and not speculation.

Reread your post...slowly this time.

Nope, you're wrong here. The line that you singled out was entirely factual. Perhaps you don't know what "factual" means.