Weak Sauce: Mary Cain May Duck The Competition At Pre

all NOPers are dopers

dkny64 wrote:

Cain is a very good runner, but if she isn't in PR shape, she's going to be off the back of this field, so what's the point of being in the race? That's not ducking competition, it's being realistic about whether you're actually going to be competitive.

My criticism was aimed at the sport in general including sprinters, not Mary Cain or NOP specifically.

My thoughts are that it is good to get your butt kicked from time to time and if you are not ready, then don't enter. It looks bad on you and the sport if you enter, see that the competition is too tough, then try to find an event in which you will fare better. That way you please your sponsor, yet save face. Bad play in my eyes. $hit or get off the pot!

What's the problem then? They weren't ready so now she's not entered. I don't know about emotion but to go ahead in what might be the best 1500 of the season as a rust buster sounds like a waste if she won't be really in it. Meanwhile, I can see Cranny peaking for this race or probably month

She's simply sh*tting in a different pot. Get over it… she got her butt kicked last year in the final at Worlds and she'll get her butt kicked again. Maybe Salazar thought she'd be ready, but perhaps recent workouts have indicated she just needs a little more time.

It sure seems to me that your criticism is aimed at Cain.

The names of the competition should have been left out of it. I doubt that it was Salazar who quoted the names. If he did, it was an unfortunate quote.

As much as I wanted to see Cain in this race, I was a little surprised that this would be her first race of the season. Stepping down to the 800 makes sense if that is what her coaches think is best for this point in her season. It is not as if the 800 will be void of competion.

Let's not put Cranny at Cain's world class level just yet and pretend that we are serious about it.

"Marita Koch" - a once in a century athlete according to a post above was doper.

run with the wom wrote:

"Marita Koch" - a once in a century athlete according to a post above was doper.

all NOPers are dopers

agip wrote:

Pastor Steve wrote:

Mary is a one in a century athlete but for goodness sake, she is in High School, let's lay off the criticism. She did not duck the competition when she made it to the World Championship 1500 finals. She is just now finishing her HS exams and has not had a serious race in her schedule, give her a little grace. She is going to delight us track fans for many tears to come.

good post. For anyone else, I would say this is ducking the competition. But for a high schooler who had a very, very important and emotional month...to rustbust at Pre in an aces 1500? hey, maybe, but it doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

Agreed. Obviously a bit of a let down, but I don't think many people would opt to jump into a race where they could likely take a beating when they have the opportunity to sharpen up and race the same people in several weeks and put up a much better fight.

buy a vowel wrote:

It sure seems to me that your criticism is aimed at Cain.

If the shoe fits, wear it. My criticism is aimed at her coach, manager, or whoever entered her, saw that the competition became too hot, and is floundering to save her reputation. In my eyes, a reputation is not hurt by getting your butt kicked when not in top shape etc. There is nothing for me to get over. I really don't give a rat's a$$. However, when the sport is looking for sponsorship and attention, it is the very perception that these episodes provide that kill it.

If the athlete is not ready, QUIETLY stay out of the meet. Some management don't know how to do the right thing without attention-getting behavior which in my eyes gives the sport a bad name.

Perspectivation wrote:

agip wrote:

good post. For anyone else, I would say this is ducking the competition. But for a high schooler who had a very, very important and emotional month...to rustbust at Pre in an aces 1500? hey, maybe, but it doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

Agreed. Obviously a bit of a let down, but I don't think many people would opt to jump into a race where they could likely take a beating when they have the opportunity to sharpen up and race the same people in several weeks and put up a much better fight.

here's an interesting thought experiment. If MC were a boy, would our advice be different? Would I have advised alan webb not to run Pre, in exactly the same conditions?

Maybe - I'm probably trying to protect MC a little, while for a boy I probably wouldn't do the same. I'd say boys are supposed to tilt against windmills, lose, get back up again, etc.

have to think about this.

Perspectivation wrote:

agip wrote:

good post. For anyone else, I would say this is ducking the competition. But for a high schooler who had a very, very important and emotional month...to rustbust at Pre in an aces 1500? hey, maybe, but it doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

Agreed. Obviously a bit of a let down, but I don't think many people would opt to jump into a race where they could likely take a beating when they have the opportunity to sharpen up and race the same people in several weeks and put up a much better fight.

All Salazar said was that they hadn't made a final decision on the 1500m or the 800m. If her workouts are going well, presumably she'll stay in the 1500m.

Anyway, here's hoping that whichever event she runs goes well for her. And who knows, maybe Cain will drop down to the 800m and Cranny will have a breakthrough race in the 1500m and lower the HS record. Stranger things have happened.

been around ya' know wrote:

The names of the competition should have been left out of it. I doubt that it was Salazar who quoted the names. If he did, it was an unfortunate quote.

As much as I wanted to see Cain in this race, I was a little surprised that this would be her first race of the season. Stepping down to the 800 makes sense if that is what her coaches think is best for this point in her season. It is not as if the 800 will be void of competion.

Let's not put Cranny at Cain's world class level just yet and pretend that we are serious about it.

I agree the issue is in the language of the article. Athletes pull out of races all of the time because their fitness is not where they thought it would be because of recovery from injuries, illness, or just poor training results. No one questions this.

But the article positioned it like Salazar did not want Cain running against two top named athletes.

opinionated guy wrote:

. . . My criticism is aimed at her coach, manager, or whoever entered her, saw that the competition became too hot, and is floundering to save her reputation. . .

Seriously? This is THE Nike track event of the year and Salazar is arguably THE Nike coach. You don't think think he (they) had an idea of what the competition would be like?

The only thing I have seen Salazar say about Cain and the Pre meet leading up to this is that this would be her opener for the outdoor season. It seems that this is still the case. The only decision to be made is whether she will open her outdoor season with a 1500m (Diamond League) or an 800m (really, really good professional competition).

been around ya' know wrote:

Seriously? This is THE Nike track event of the year and Salazar is arguably THE Nike coach. You don't think think he (they) had an idea of what the competition would be like?

The only thing I have seen Salazar say about Cain and the Pre meet leading up to this is that this would be her opener for the outdoor season. It seems that this is still the case. The only decision to be made is whether she will open her outdoor season with a 1500m (Diamond League) or an 800m (really, really good professional competition).

You would like to think so!

As I said, if he QUIETLY made these decisions without going to the press, etc. it would be a non-issue. Instead it appears they are ducking competition which must seem to the average fan the way T&F is most of the time.

My criticism is not aimed at the decision, just making it public.

agip wrote:

here's an interesting thought experiment. If MC were a boy, would our advice be different? Would I have advised alan webb not to run Pre, in exactly the same conditions?

Maybe - I'm probably trying to protect MC a little, while for a boy I probably wouldn't do the same. I'd say boys are supposed to tilt against windmills, lose, get back up again, etc.

have to think about this.

Actually Webb was one of the first examples I came up with as to why racing her when not ready could backfire. People who have never been in the position of being expected to win, may not appreciate the pyschological effect of getting crushed. A couple beatings can change ones career. If it happens, it happens, but you certainly don't want to increase the odds of getting drilled when you are a favorite.

Do people really think that Solinsky lost all of his fitness and ability? A guy who ran 26:59, under 13:00 3 times in a summer doesn't simply lose his ability all of the sudden. There is a major mental aspect to running at the top level. All runners are different, some could come back easily, some will struggle.

Cain should run with the best competition.

Whether she wins or not doesn't matter, but ducking the competition, and even more important, the missed opportunities and not having regrets are much more important.

Ducking competition is bad for the psych. Look at Rupp, he's afraid to push the pace against even weak competition.

Why not enter both?

Run the 800m Friday night. If the results are good, come back for the 1500m the next day. If not, don't.

Doubt the 800m would take much out of her for the 1500. Actually might help. Didn't hurt Cranny at Mt. SAC when she ran a 2:06 then came back less than 24 hrs later to run her 2:04 pr.

I agree, such B.S. Advertising to track fans, selling tickets, creating excitement then pulling the cork. This is all Salazar. Watched him at Oxy HP standing in Lane 3 with his watch screaming at Hasay and Rowbury during the 5000m. WTH?! Coaches on the infield sure, but on the track? Too bad. Hope she runs the 1500m, it will be a good one, ready or not.

Actually, she stopped being a high school athlete when she signed a professional contract. Part of the gig is withstanding criticism.

agip wrote:

Pastor Steve wrote:

Mary is a one in a century athlete but for goodness sake, she is in High School, let's lay off the criticism. She did not duck the competition when she made it to the World Championship 1500 finals. She is just now finishing her HS exams and has not had a serious race in her schedule, give her a little grace. She is going to delight us track fans for many tears to come.

good post. For anyone else, I would say this is ducking the competition. But for a high schooler who had a very, very important and emotional month...to rustbust at Pre in an aces 1500? hey, maybe, but it doesn't sound like a great idea to me.