Nick Willis Only has 50 400m speed???

i have not come across distance guys dissing their speed

quite the opposite

kennster says on a vid that he coud go 48+ which is nonsense if the geb 51+ is true

willis was targeting his national 800 record a while back which is still snell's 1'44.3 & you don't go chasing that kinda clocking off 1500 ability if you don't believe you have some serious innate speed

There's a youtube video of Willis running a flying 300m in 36.5. That seems pretty consistent with the 48.66 400m relay split someone else listed. A flying start helps a ton for distance runners especially - we don't train to overcome inertia and get to near-top speed in a matter of seconds.

I do think he would sneak under 50.00 for the open 400m, but not by much...

true brit wrote:

There's a youtube video of Willis running a flying 300m in 36.5. That seems pretty consistent with the 48.66 400m relay split someone else listed. A flying start helps a ton for distance runners especially - we don't train to overcome inertia and get to near-top speed in a matter of seconds.

I do think he would sneak under 50.00 for the open 400m, but not by much...

Flying 300m in 36.5 is not consistent with 48.6. Note that 48.6 is a FASTER pace at a LONGER distance. Of course considering it was during practice, this makes more sense.

Why is the 400m the marker of speed anyways?

It takes strict talent to build the speed-endurance to maintain "speed" for 400 meters. This is more of a indicator of anaerobic power, which is the ability to QUICKLY accumulate lactate to a high level.

For instance, Bolt opens the 400m in 45.XX but has FAR superior speed than Kirani James who'd run 44.xx. But Bolt, at least currently, does not have as much endurance to maintain speed as Kirani would have.

As for distance runners, it is definitely a bit counter-intuitive to build this to a high level. That would take specific training, which would focus on anaerobic development rather than aerobic development. Instead of focusing on 1k's at 5k pace early in the season, the miler would need to focus on 250's near max to fully train the 400m talent. 1k's @ 5k pace would decrease the ability to run a fast 400m...

For instance, Steve Cram was an "aerobic beast" of an 800m runner, who only had a 49.XX 400m time.

More or less, speed could be measured in top-end speed in perhaps a 100m fly than a 400m standing start. It takes into account pure top-end speed rather than speed endurance. And with this being said, that won't indicate too much as shown by Mo Farah vs Galen. Finishing Speed vs Top Speed...

Amerikano wrote:For instance, Steve Cram was an "aerobic beast" of an 800m runner, who only had a 49.XX 400m time

that is a nonsense pb

in his oslo mile of 3'46 with 53+ finish he had to have

~ 46-low / 1'41-high

he was in better shape that day than edinburgh '86 where he ran 1'43.22 off 51.8/51.4 in freezing weather & wide on 2 bends, which i estimate as an 1'42-flat effort for 2s +ve splits & tight in lane 1 from gun - but still in freezing weather & after rounds

"aerobic beast" does not exist

it just means they ran nonsense under-distance not in shape/focus of temperate-weather/rested/hopefully perfect paced

zurich

attempt at their under-distance pb

ventolin^3 wrote:

it just means they ran nonsense under-distance not in shape/focus of temperate-weather/rested/hopefully perfect paced

zurich

attempt at their under-distance pb

Eh?

ventolin^3 wrote:

i have to agree

it is not possible to split 47+ & not break 50 in an open 400

either 1 or other or both figures have some error

logic indicates his 47+ may not been timed properly ( or took stick after 400 point ) or/& that 50-flat was not a fully rested, focused, peak shape 400 like he was preparing to run a 400 in zurich

It is possible to not break 50-flat in an open 400 if you don't use correct starting technique for distance runners - left leg forward/right arm forward.

Bekele with a 51+ 400? You are seriously retarded. Or, as you might better understand...

moron

absurd

imbecile

Reasonable calculators, not one's based off a bunch of gibberish after getting hopped up on Ventolin/Albuterol, point towards an open 400M of 48-low to 48-mid for Bekele.

MIC ITW wrote:

Reasonable calculators, not one's based off a bunch of gibberish after getting hopped up on Ventolin/Albuterol, point towards an open 400M of 48-low to 48-mid for Bekele.

rofl

Ask yourself what someone with "48-low to 48-mid" and 26:17 10k endurance could expect to run for the 1500 / mile / 3000 / 2 mile.

Shame no one told Bekele that he had that kind of speed. He should have shattered El G & Komen's records.

hahahahahahaha

Or El G and Komen could have shattered his...

MathBuff wrote:

rofl

Ask yourself what someone with "48-low to 48-mid" and 26:17 10k endurance could expect to run for the 1500 / mile / 3000 / 2 mile.

Shame no one told Bekele that he had that kind of speed. He should have shattered El G & Komen's records.

hahahahahahaha

Actually, Bekele told us he had that kind of speed, and his workouts and races reflected that. What the hell would you expect from the GOAT?

Anyhow, had he focused on the 1500 and 3000, I would expect he would have run a few seconds either way of what Komen did.

You folks need to get your heads straight. Consider that the top US HS distance runners have about 50-51 400M speed. You really don't think Bekele could have run away from Blake Haney over 400M?

MIC ITW wrote:

MathBuff wrote:

rofl

Ask yourself what someone with "48-low to 48-mid" and 26:17 10k endurance could expect to run for the 1500 / mile / 3000 / 2 mile.

Shame no one told Bekele that he had that kind of speed. He should have shattered El G & Komen's records.

hahahahahahaha

Actually, Bekele told us he had that kind of speed, and his workouts and races reflected that. What the hell would you expect from the GOAT?

Anyhow, had he focused on the 1500 and 3000, I would expect he would have run a few seconds either way of what Komen did.

You folks need to get your heads straight. Consider that the top US HS distance runners have about 50-51 400M speed. You really don't think Bekele could have run away from Blake Haney over 400M?

And what Bekele said was nonsense.

Someone posted a long time ago about meeting El G and his coach at a Nike store in Oregon. He asked them both what El G could run for 400m. El G said 49 seconds. His coach said he ran 48.xx in a workout once.

If rested, he probably could have run 47.high when in peak shape.

Bekele was not anywhere close to El G in terms of speed. To even suggest this is completely laughable.

Komen had better speed than Geb. Geb had better speed than Bekele. Their 1500 PRs reflect this. Komen ran 3:29/3:46. Geb ran 3:31 indoors. Bekele ran 3:32.

What US high school kids do has nothing to do with it. Alan Webb ran a 47 relay leg his senior year. Does that mean Bekele would be able to do that and "run away" from him. After all, Webb was just a "top US high school distance runner"

In no way did Bekele ever have sub 50 second 400 speed, let alone 48 seconds.

Hicham said 49-50 seconds for 400m and 1:45 for 800m. I then asked his coach the same questions-he said he has run 48 for 400m and 1:44 high for 800m in training

Here is a video of him running 35.8 flying 300m, looking smooth and relaxed. It seems like a lot of "strength milers" don't know what their 400 times are so they just round to 50 seconds. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qq_0r2gvYY

true brit wrote:

There's a youtube video of Willis running a flying 300m in 36.5. That seems pretty consistent with the 48.66 400m relay split someone else listed. A flying start helps a ton for distance runners especially - we don't train to overcome inertia and get to near-top speed in a matter of seconds.

I do think he would sneak under 50.00 for the open 400m, but not by much...

Runners like Willis only have 50.0 400 speed because they don't devote their training to get faster for 400 because they run the 1500. Not the 400. And you can't train as a sprinter when you are training to improve in your primary event. You give too much up in your aerobic level to train completely as a sprinter.

Most 3:34 1500 runners probably had 51.0 400 speed in high school. And some maybe even 23.0 speed for 200 which doesn't even get you to state meet as a sprinter.

The only top 1500 runner under 47 for a 400 out of the blocks I've ever heard of was Coe.

Willis might only have 50.0 400 speed but I bet he could run 51.0 at the end of a 3:45 1500.

And if he wanted to train a year totally as a 400 runner he might have run under 47 which is really good for NCAA qualifier that doesn't make the final.

Someotherperson wrote:

Here is a video of him running 35.8 flying 300m, looking smooth and relaxed. It seems like a lot of "strength milers" don't know what their 400 times are so they just round to 50 seconds.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qq_0r2gvYY

true brit wrote:

There's a youtube video of Willis running a flying 300m in 36.5. That seems pretty consistent with the 48.66 400m relay split someone else listed. A flying start helps a ton for distance runners especially - we don't train to overcome inertia and get to near-top speed in a matter of seconds.

I do think he would sneak under 50.00 for the open 400m, but not by much...

Sorry for the inaccuracy! Cheers for clearing that up, I must have got mixed up with times...

i love this report. and it tells the story about 1500m runners and what they say about their speed. the guy never breaks 50 but runs 47 in a relay.. this is typical...

just like when cram says he's so slow at 400, all the while he just about took out coe in a short race, runs 142..

race starts 1 minute in.

MathBuff wrote:

Komen had better speed than Geb. Geb had better speed than Bekele. Their 1500 PRs reflect this. Komen ran 3:29/3:46. Geb ran 3:31 indoors. Bekele ran 3:32.

You've lost all credibility with this statement. Bekele could clearly have run 3:30 that day he ran 3:32. You clearly didn't watch the race.

Frabbit wrote:

true brit wrote:

There's a youtube video of Willis running a flying 300m in 36.5. That seems pretty consistent with the 48.66 400m relay split someone else listed. A flying start helps a ton for distance runners especially - we don't train to overcome inertia and get to near-top speed in a matter of seconds.

I do think he would sneak under 50.00 for the open 400m, but not by much...

Flying 300m in 36.5 is not consistent with 48.6. Note that 48.6 is a FASTER pace at a LONGER distance. Of course considering it was during practice, this makes more sense.

Faster: