This guy did not look to be in any danger whatsoever. It appeared to mainly be an issue with extreme leg fatigue/cramping rather than a total breakdown of his body that would place him at risk of death or permanent injury.
I don't see what the big deal is. I did not find this alarming at all. And I have witnessed some pretty scary stuff at races (such as total cardiac arrest).
When a runner collapsed WHILE RUNNING it is likely that they have either hyponatremia or are suffering from sudden cardiac arrest, both of which are life-threatening. Does not sound like this was the case in this situation but regardless it is EXTREMELY IRRESPONSIBLE to encourage a collapsed athlete to finish. Don't even bring up that idiot woman who finished the race on a fractured femur. She'll probably never run again.
Unconscionable.
Speaking Truth to Power wrote:
This guy did not look to be in any danger whatsoever. It appeared to mainly be an issue with extreme leg fatigue/cramping rather than a total breakdown of his body that would place him at risk of death or permanent injury.
I don't see what the big deal is. I did not find this alarming at all. And I have witnessed some pretty scary stuff at races (such as total cardiac arrest).
Completely disagree. Looks like hypoglycemia to me, and incidentally this was confirmed by the hospital.
Leg fatigue doesn't make you do the crazy walk. Does anyone have that video of a kid crumpling in the home stretch of a 5 or 10 on the track?
adf adsf ads f wrote:
When a runner collapsed WHILE RUNNING it is likely that they have either hyponatremia or are suffering from sudden cardiac arrest, both of which are life-threatening. Does not sound like this was the case in this situation but regardless it is EXTREMELY IRRESPONSIBLE to encourage a collapsed athlete to finish.
Correct.
incorrect. People struggle through to the finish line all the time and we applaud their effort.
JAliet wrote:
Another case of dishonesty. Hosea Kiplagat is trying to be politically correct. This is what Marathon running is all about - you keep going. You fall down, you freaking get up. Two weeks ago, a runner was carried by fellow runners across the Boston marathon Finnish line. Note the following: 1. Nobody is forcing the runner to run. He has made his choice as an adult to run in this gruesome, death-defying sport 2. He is ahead of all other runners in the race, so he probably knows what he is doing and is the strongest. 3. If he can fall and get up, he is still strong enough to continue. 4. There is no such thing as 'completely collapse' as Wahiga Mwaura says. That's just being dramatic. You either collapse or you dont. 5. Marathoners cardinal rule: unless you puke, or pass out or die, you freaking keep going. 6. He is a Kenyan. Wazungus believe we are freaks of nature and can do the impossible. Including collapsing, getting up and winning. 7. He is neither the first nor the last to collapse near the finnish line in a marathon. Happens all the time. 8. This is just a lesson for him and his agent. Next time he will distribute his energy more sensibly across the 42K. 9. The bystanders are telling him to finnish. Good. They understand what its all about. They understand it takes everything. When your body fails and your mind shuts down, you run or crawl with your heart. Ordinary people would want him to give up. They dont understand that giving up is not an option.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqBerM9FPwA
Only Sweden and Russia have Finnish lines. In Geography, we call them "borders."
They guy was lying on the side of the street and was barely moving. At that point, if he wasn't responding to those around him to finish, the race is over.
I think the medical crew got it right. Better for someone to complain about being stopped, than for a runner to risk possible severe health issues or even die.
rojo wrote:
I don't know what to think about this one. Yes it looks horrific but think about it for a minute.
I do know one thing. I certainly recognized a dichotomy in the fact that our nightly editor put this video up under the title "Disturbing" then on the next column over, he has a story he titles "Gutsy" about a Canadian women finishing a marathon on a fractured femur.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/amateur/2014/04/28/gutsy_runner_completes_halfmarathon_with_broken_leg.html#It's basically the same action except one made the finish line and one didn't. And yet one is praised as honorable and one is praised as awful.
Is the difference is whether it's voluntary or not? If the runner in ITaly is being forced to do it, then it's totally wrong. But if he's liking the encouragement and wants the money, I don't see how it's much different than the Canadian situation. (I want to know who the person is next to him)
Many would argue neither one should be 'allowed' but human desire is hard to stop. If they stopped the Canadian, she'd be really upset. If the Kenyan guy had made the finish line and gotten paid, he'd be happy. He'd be irate if they stopped him.
At some level, a judgement has to be made.
It's easy to say now, "Oh that's awful, but it's hard to do at the time in the heat of competition."
Rojo are you crazy? I guess thanks for not throwing me under the bus by referring to me as "nightly editor", but I have no problem with the way I phrased it.
First, let's get one thing straight. There is a huge difference between these two cases. DuChene's (the Canadian) life was never on the line. Worst case scenario she'll have chronic leg pain the rest of her life, but there was no way she was dying. She wasn't treated until midnight that day and she was fine.
Magut (the Kenyan) on the other hand was rushed away in an ambulance and had to receive immediate medical attention. There is a good chance if he didn't he could have died. That is a major distinction; one runner's life was in danger and the other's wasn't. It's pretty clear to even those who aren't medically trained that someone limping with leg pain is not dying while someone in Magut's situation could be in danger. With all the articles we've put up recently about runners dying in marathons I can't believe you're not recognizing that.
All that said, I'm fine with people debating whether or not Magut should have been stopped or not, it's not an easy call. When do you step in and stop someone if they want to continue? Did he want to continue or was he being pressured by those around him even though he wanted to stop? (It certainly seemed like that old dude on the bike was commanding him yelling, "Finish, finish, finish" even when Magut was lying on the ground.) How much left in the race was there? (I think someone might have said he still had over a 1000m while DuChene only had 500m.) I don't know the answer to these questions and they are crucial in deciding what should have been done.
Could he even communicate with those around him? You know that even if you speak English, runners from Kenya are not always easy to understand and this was Italy so who knows if there was a clear understanding between him and the officials. DuChene was in her home country and could clearly communicate to those around her that she was ok to keep going.
No matter what the circumstance was, his video was disturbing. I cringed as I watched it and was extremely worried for this guy. My comments on the homepage were in no way critical of him and I never even said straight out whether I thought he should have been stopped or not. I respect the hell out of him for trying to keep going and I don't envy the position the officials were in having to decide whether or not to stop him. But if I was the one making the call I would have stopped him after the first time he collapsed (1:42 into the video assuming that was the first time, he may have even fallen once before the video started). He shouldn't have been allowed to get up and keep going. His life is worth way more than the 600 euros or whatever that were on the line.
sangbargor wrote:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MylDS0NxqB0&fulldescription=1&guid=&hl=en&gl=KE&client=mv-googlethis guy could have died.
"Could have died" = "was perfectly ok after something to eat and drink"
It seems to me that, although he was really in a bad way near the end, that what he had, after all was heart. Heart is that which keeps runners going when they feel they have no more left. Yes, people like Julie Moss (Ironman Triathlon World Championships), Bob Kempainen (US Marathon trials), and several others in the past have run into this problem. The human spirit in its raw form is a no-quit spirit. Some of us much slower runners have had problems like this before, like me for instance, my PR is only a 4:38 in the marathon...However, after that 4:38, likely because of my 1:54 1/2 marathon split, etc on a non-flat course, by the time I reached the finish, I was practically white as a sheet and drained of practically everything. A perceptive volunteer at the end helped me to the medical tent where I spent 30 minutes before I finally recovered and could be "with it". This video is a man who has reached "the end" of what the body can do. But heart has no end.I am not surprised that he recovered after this, nor am I surprised he kept trying. Given the choice between willingly quitting and the body shutting down, forcing us to quit, most of us would choose the second one--every time. That is why we run.Thanks,Mike
sangbargor wrote:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MylDS0NxqB0&fulldescription=1&guid=&hl=en&gl=KE&client=mv-googlethis guy could have died.
Good on you Soprano. This video is more than just disturbing ... it's fckin SICKENING. And those defending the non-action of those people around him need to sit down and reexamine themselves. It seems Eliud Magut is just a racehorse with just one purpose. Kenyans are rightfully outraged by this and I hope the agent is banned from the country for good.
sullivan2day wrote:
incorrect. People struggle through to the finish line all the time and we applaud their effort.
What part of my posts were incorrect? Every single assertion?
Please describe your medical (and legal) experience.
Soprano wrote:
Rojo are you crazy? I guess thanks for not throwing me under the bus by referring to me as "nightly editor", but I have no problem with the way I phrased it.
First, let's get one thing straight. There is a huge difference between these two cases. DuChene's (the Canadian) life was never on the line. Worst case scenario she'll have chronic leg pain the rest of her life, but there was no way she was dying. She wasn't treated until midnight that day and she was fine.
Magut (the Kenyan) on the other hand was rushed away in an ambulance and had to receive immediate medical attention. There is a good chance if he didn't he could have died. That is a major distinction; one runner's life was in danger and the other's wasn't. It's pretty clear to even those who aren't medically trained that someone limping with leg pain is not dying while someone in Magut's situation could be in danger. With all the articles we've put up recently about runners dying in marathons I can't believe you're not recognizing that.
All that said, I'm fine with people debating whether or not Magut should have been stopped or not, it's not an easy call. When do you step in and stop someone if they want to continue? Did he want to continue or was he being pressured by those around him even though he wanted to stop? (It certainly seemed like that old dude on the bike was commanding him yelling, "Finish, finish, finish" even when Magut was lying on the ground.) How much left in the race was there? (I think someone might have said he still had over a 1000m while DuChene only had 500m.) I don't know the answer to these questions and they are crucial in deciding what should have been done.
Could he even communicate with those around him? You know that even if you speak English, runners from Kenya are not always easy to understand and this was Italy so who knows if there was a clear understanding between him and the officials. DuChene was in her home country and could clearly communicate to those around her that she was ok to keep going.
No matter what the circumstance was, his video was disturbing. I cringed as I watched it and was extremely worried for this guy. My comments on the homepage were in no way critical of him and I never even said straight out whether I thought he should have been stopped or not. I respect the hell out of him for trying to keep going and I don't envy the position the officials were in having to decide whether or not to stop him. But if I was the one making the call I would have stopped him after the first time he collapsed (1:42 into the video assuming that was the first time, he may have even fallen once before the video started). He shouldn't have been allowed to get up and keep going. His life is worth way more than the 600 euros or whatever that were on the line.
Excellent post by employee 1.1
sangbargor wrote:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MylDS0NxqB0&fulldescription=1&guid=&hl=en&gl=KE&client=mv-googlethis guy could have died.
In the same way the Lukas Verzbickas "nearly died" in his bike crash?
None of these news outlets reported his finishing time. He is not listed in the results. Was he dq'd?
Good opinion from the always thoughtful and informed Ross Tucker of The Science of Sport.
(I agree with him on essentially all points; his post is a much better researched representation of what I've hastily posted here.)
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2014/05/kenyan-runners-dramatic-finish-insult-slavery/
frequent event MD wrote:
I don't think the athlete made a bad decision to continue until collapse. I would, too. But I would hope a medical official would stop me before I hit pavement, and they should have here.
This. I too found the video a little disturbing...